Blue Monday; Biden’s Biscuit; Bitcoin; Parler gets a landing page; Uber, Lyft drivers in California sue to overturn Prop 22; Virgin Orbit; lying over text; Dan Carlin, Common Sense; Spotify’s bet on podcasts is failing; Apple looks into Podcast subscriptions; Paramount becomes a Plus; Wild Kratts; the Hustler; Fitbit joins Google; Instagram Reels audio; Ben Yelin joins us to talk 1st & 5th Amendments & the Internet; Pelosi’s laptop; feedback.

This episode is brought to you by Hover. For 10% off your first order head over to and get your domain on!

Show Notes


The Bitcoin Dream Is Dead by James Surowiecki

Mt. Gox exchange users may finally get to recover some of their lost Bitcoin


Parler’s website is back up, but the service is still unavailable

Pirate Bay Founder Thinks Parler’s Inability to Stay Online Is ‘Embarrassing’

Uber and Lyft drivers in California sue to overturn Prop 22 ballot measure

Virgin Orbit just earned the orbit part of its name

According To A Study, This Is How To Tell If Someone’s Lying To You Via Text


Spotify’s big bet on podcasts is failing, Citi says

Apple, the Company That Basically Invented Podcasts, Has Reportedly Decided to Give This Whole Podcast Thing a Try

Paramount Plus, ViacomCBS’s new rebranded version of CBS All Access, launches on March 4th

What Will a Million Distraught Disneyland Superfans Do Now That the Annual Pass Is Dead?

Wild Kratts

The Hustler


Fitbit Joins Google

Privacy and antitrust experts described Google’s $2.1 billion Fitbit deal as sinister: ‘It’s crazy this has been allowed to happen’

I tested the dumbest PPE of all time – the Rich Guy COVID Helmet

DuroMax XP5500E Gas Powered Portable Generator – 5500 Watt – Electric Start – Camping & RV Ready, 50 State Approved

Jigsaw Puzzles from NY Times, La Times, etc from the day you were born


The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson

My Antifa Lover is one of the worst romance novels I’ve ever read—but it does manage one stunning feat.


The CyberWire

Dave Bittner

Hacking Humans


‘The Muppet Show’ Coming to Disney Plus in February

Capitol rioter allegedly planned to sell laptop from Pelosi’s office to Russia


Samsung’s top executive gets 30 months in prison for bribery

Goodreads plans to retire API access, disables existing API keys

Animaniacs Intro Redo

SiriusXM is the New Destination for Original, Exclusive, and Popular Podcasts

Rocket Surgery Studio

WhatsApp Clarifies Facebook Data-Sharing As Users Flock To Rival Signal

Signal is a government op

WhatsApp changes: Signal messaging platform restored after surge prompts outage

People have been donating to Signal

Me Love you Yonks

Tracy Chou launches Block Party to combat online harassment and abuse

Airbnb Has Canceled All Reservations In DC During Inauguration


Phil Spector Transformed Pop Music and Destroyed Lives

RIP New York Dolls guitarist Sylvain Sylvain


Robert Fogarty 0:02
grumpy old geeks, a weekly talk show hosted by Brian true Meister and Jason defilippo. Discussing the finer points of what went wrong on the internet, and who's to blame.

Jason DeFillippo 0:16
Welcome to grumpy old geeks. I'm Jason defilippo.

Brian Schulmeister 0:19
And Brian show Mr. Jason, this is Episode 492. I went back and did the math. We have done 307 episodes since Trump won the election. Yes, we have. We're mostly a Trump show.

Jason DeFillippo 0:34
That would if you could you have to put a qualifier on that. Yeah, suppose

Brian Schulmeister 0:38
we do. Well, with any luck. This is the final show recorded under a Trump administration. But we still got 25 hours to go. So we'll see.

Jason DeFillippo 0:47
Yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there soon. Soon. Fingers crossed. So it was hopefully we can have the next show title called Armageddon averted. Yes, that would be nice. Yes. And we will be taking next episode off so you can come repatriates your sorry ass back to the United States for just a little while, I guess.

Brian Schulmeister 1:07
Yeah. Well, well, enough to pack up and get everything together. So thank you for that. I'm impressed that you've decided to take it off. Because normally you would be scrambling to find a guest host because no vacations for Jason.

Jason DeFillippo 1:19
Yeah. Jason says Fuck it. Casey needs a break.

Brian Schulmeister 1:23
Yeah, I would do the show. But you know, it's it's too rough to move back across countries and do a show the next day. So

Jason DeFillippo 1:31
we cough? Yeah, well, after 307 episodes, I would like it. I would like a breather to like kind of just like,

Unknown Speaker 1:38

Jason DeFillippo 1:39
and get back to what we were good at. If we were ever good at anything that is, I guess. But yeah, since we don't have an ad next week, and you're going to be traveling. And I have to say that I've never really heard of Blue Monday until yesterday. And I have to say it's a thing.

Brian Schulmeister 1:56
I'm aware of the song by New Order.

Jason DeFillippo 1:58
Blue Monday is apparently the most depressing day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. So January 18, because it's like right in the middle between the last holidays, the next holidays, the days are darker, it's colder, it's crappier Trump's still here. And I I've been talking to a bunch of my friends. And we've all been like, just super tired, lethargic, and just like, can't move. And then I'm like, Oh, those are all the signs of depression. And yeah, so hopefully, everybody will be on the upswing now. So when we come back, every bit will be chipper and cheery. Like,

Brian Schulmeister 2:34
how's this Monday? any different from any other Monday since March? Yeah, well,

Jason DeFillippo 2:40
we have things to look forward to, I guess, I guess. And it's funny, one of the things we have to look forward to is the transfer of the nuclear football. And I was reading an article this morning in CNN, and they kept talking about Biden's biscuit. And I just thought that was fun to say, so I wanted to bring it up good old Biden's biscuit

Brian Schulmeister 2:55
like that. And speaking of things to look forward to, my mom actually got her first vaccination shot yesterday. Bastard. I know, it's pretty cool. I mean, here's the deal, though. They opened it up to 65 and older in Orange County. And they've got the Disneyland mass vaccination site right in the app to register and all that sort of stuff. And I hear that they just opened it up in LA as well to 65 and older. So either we're burning through every single vaccine we've got left or there is some sort of stockpile somewhere, but will not get into that. But here's the thing, you're 65 and older, right? My mom is a little bit older than 65. She's in her early 70s. The way that you register is either via an app or a website. Okay. My mom does not know how to download apps. I venture a lot of 65 year older and older do not know how to do that. Okay, sure, you can register on the website, my mom is totally capable of that, given the amount of shit she orders from Amazon, she has learned how to register to a website. Once you register the website, the demand is so high. Demand is so high that it basically it's all a bit janky you have to keep revisiting the website, you have to keep reloading the website. We did it for my mom two nights in a row basically incessantly to finally be able to get her one of the very few spots. There is no way that most people of that age range are capable of doing that. So I'm assuming everybody that is showing up to this thing has has kids that are taking care of it for them. You got to make it a bit easier for these older people. That's all I'm saying.

Jason DeFillippo 4:31
It's a government website. What do you think the odds of that are right now?

Unknown Speaker 4:34
No, no, well,

Jason DeFillippo 4:35
not gonna be there.

Brian Schulmeister 4:37
But she got it and I'm very pleased about that. So she is she is and it was the modern one. So she is uh, you know, got a fairly high level of protection already before the second shot. So good. Okay. Now I want to get mine.

Jason DeFillippo 4:50
I do too. I do too. I mean, just Come on, guys. Hurry it up. Hurry it up. And I saw this and I just now I put this Didn't hear and I didn't even really have to read it because I've read so many of these damn articles it's called the Bitcoin dream is dead by James sir whiskey okay and he says bitcoins recent 25% plunge illustrates why it will never be a true currency. And here's what I love about this Bitcoin has become our new eggs, Brian, Bitcoin is great. Bitcoin is terrible. Bitcoin is great Bitcoin is terrible,

Brian Schulmeister 5:23
I'm gonna do fully on the side of Bitcoin is terrible, it will never be a true currency because it will never be backed by any government or entity whatsoever, which means it will always be prone to chicanery and gaming, the markets and all of that sort of stuff, which we've seen going on and the quick rise and plunge was, I mean, you can see it on social media. When the rise was happening, everybody was doing the whole, I don't know about this stuff, but I've got mine. And if you use my referral link here, you'll get point 00 1% of 1% of a Bitcoin. And, you know, it got pushed up really high. And then of course, it plunged a little bit when people pulled their money out because they made some now I agree with all of that, and I think it's bullshit. Having said that, I also threw another $200 and I'm up like 15% or so I'm not crazy, but shit man, I haven't been to Vegas since my kid was born. Not always earmark a couple 100 bucks for gambling cash. So why not? Still that money probably should have gotten into apple or Tesla and I'd see a longer better return.

Jason DeFillippo 6:27
Yeah, but hey, this is fun. I get it. You know, why

Brian Schulmeister 6:30
not? Why not? It's Yeah, what I figured and you know, I'm up, so I should probably pull out.

Jason DeFillippo 6:36
Yeah, I mean, it was never designed as an investment vehicle. That's the big thing and also the fact that so many Bitcoin have been lost to

Brian Schulmeister 6:46
us. Yes. There's the story about the guy that was basically says he has like over $400 million in Bitcoin on a USB stick that he threw in the trash and he's willing to share 55 million or something like that, of that with his town if if the town bands together and goes through the dump to find this. And of course, there's this story, which is a bit of follow up. We talked about Mt. Gox. When that whole thing happened. They went bankrupt in 2014. It was the world's largest Bitcoin exchange at the time, holding 850,000 bitcoins from 1000s of users. And again, this is why it's never going to be a true currency. They went out of business and nobody got there, but Bitcoin none of you have no one number. Yeah, creditors may finally be able to get a portion of those bitcoins back one of Mount Gox largest creditors coin labs had an agreement with itself, Mount Gox has bankruptcy trustee, and another group may allow creditors to recover as much as 90% of the remaining bitcoins according to Bloomberg. Now, you how many is that? I want them all back. However, on the plus side here, Bitcoin was only trading at $489 when they went bankrupt, and it's currently trading at around 300 or $37,000. So about 75 times higher so I would take my 90% and be happy about it. Yeah, no,

Jason DeFillippo 8:06
seriously, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, you don't want to get bit but you don't want to get Bitbucket but you want to get something Yeah, and I remember when they were talking about how the whole bankruptcy thing it's like oh man, even if he just kind of you know paid off what was owed on it and kept the Bitcoin he'd be like so far up

Brian Schulmeister 8:26
yeah. So far up, but instead he's in jail. Good

Unknown Speaker 8:31
in the US

Ben Yellin 8:37
Guess who's back

Brian Schulmeister 8:39
parlors back Oh god. Not really the articles that are being floated around make it sound as if it's back there like parlors website is back but the service is still unavailable. Partners website is not back it's a fucking one pager saying we're gonna try to get this back.

Jason DeFillippo 8:57
It's a coming soon page. It's

Brian Schulmeister 8:58
a coming soon page. That's it. It is not back online in limited form. It has a message from the CEO saying, hello, world is this thing on being cute. We will resolve any challenges before us and plan to welcome all of you back soon. And that's it.

Jason DeFillippo 9:12
Does it have one of the old like 1990s gifts of the construction worker guy pick axing is like

Brian Schulmeister 9:18
Oh, I wish it did. It would be so amazing. Now that would have been clever. But yeah, no. So I did an interview over the weekend. He told Fox News he was confident the platform would be backup by the end of the month, which is doubtful because just a couple days ago, he told Reuters it could be never because it is complicated. And per cnn parlours domain is currently registered with Epic with a K a DNS provider known for offering a safe haven to websites like h n and the daily Stormer in the past tweet from Dave Temkin who is Netflix vice president of network and systems so he knows a thing or two about this. So just Russia's DDoS guard is hosting the website. And I would like to make a point of fact here he doesn't just suggest Did he actually shows his work? Okay, they are hosting his webs. So good dog good on that I for one hope parlor gets back up and running and Russia gets all of the right wing crazies information.

Jason DeFillippo 10:13
So yeah, I can't did we talk about this on on last week's episode about the Pirate Bay in parlour?

Brian Schulmeister 10:19
I don't recall. I don't listen to the episodes. Okay.

Jason DeFillippo 10:23
I mean, well, I was one of those things where we were speaking but I always forget afterwards. And I could have just had this conversation with myself that we want to have this conversation on the show because I am probably insane. Peterson's from the Pirate Bay, he posted an article saying, hey, parlor, you guys are fucking idiots. Because we were a bunch of kids. And nobody to this date has been able to take down the Pirate Bay, we still it's still online. And we were a bunch of dumb ass kids with no funding, and we figured it out. Why can't you? Right? You got it. I gotta find that article and put it in the show notes. It was just funny. It's like, Okay, this is what how people have come to rely on cloud services and other people's hosting. It's like, you know, no, no, if you're smart enough, you can hit your own boxes, put them in a cave somewhere, and be really tricky with your DNS and proxying. And stay online no matter what I mean. Granted, you can't get on the app store's There you go. So

Brian Schulmeister 11:18
if your website up therein lies the problem, because even if they do manage to get a Russian cloud service, up and running and plug everything into it and get that app out back out there, there's nowhere for that act to go. So yeah, there is the breizh load. Yeah, they can do a web based Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 11:35
Because I mean, what is it? It's a front end to a fucking database. It is not like 3d rendered combat in a game like situation. It's a bunch of text. Yeah. And videos, which you which is basically what the web is for and what a browser is for. They don't need an app. True. True that Yeah, unless you're going to be uploading your driver's license photos. The app to do that, what

Brian Schulmeister 11:55
kind of idiot what

Jason DeFillippo 11:57
kind of moron would upload their driver's license? Oh, Gemini. So here in California, Uber and Lyft drivers are fighting back. Yay, hmm. They're going after California, they're gonna sue to overturn Prop 22. Okay. They're basically saying that it is illegal. And

Brian Schulmeister 12:17
okay. substitutional hold on a second. We we passed a proposition to the Uber and Lyft spent a lot of money to overturn that proposition. And now we're trying to overturn the overturning

Jason DeFillippo 12:25
Yes, pretty much okay. In it in a nutshell. It's it's a little more complicated, but Yeah, kinda like that. Kinda like that. So they're saying that yeah, this is the the, some of the language in prop 22 made it almost, you know, reversible. Right now you have to have this crazy amount of people signing on to get it flipped over. And I mean, it was genius, how they did it, but that's where they're the drivers are saying in that genius is where the unconstitutionality lies, they're going to be fighting against that, and hopefully get it overturned. So good luck to them. But as we know, Uber and Lyft have big or bigger wallets than you do. But the money that you just earned them.

Brian Schulmeister 13:07
What we need is just a whole bunch of these tiny little lawsuits against Uber and Lyft all over the country, and eventually we'll just bankrupt them.

Jason DeFillippo 13:15
Well, they don't make any money. So it should be pretty quick.

Brian Schulmeister 13:17
No. One would say, we've been saying that for a couple years now.

Jason DeFillippo 13:23
Coming up on eight years, we've been saying that, yeah, people still keep investing. It's like Bitcoin, I guess it is. In some good Space News. Virgin orbit just launched their first orbital rocket they got they got something into space.

Brian Schulmeister 13:36
They burned the orbit.

Jason DeFillippo 13:38
Yeah, they have earned the orbit title. Yes. And this is pretty fun, because they're doing horizontal launches off of a 747, which is, you know, always fun. Looks like a big missile, which actually kind of is just a big missile. But Yep, it worked. So this is good news for them. This is good news for them. I don't know where Virgin Galactic is at. I know, they've been trying to get their ship up. But that's just for tourism. This is actually a you know, this has payloads payload lights. Yeah, they actually delivered a payload for NASA on this one. So congratulations to them more shitting space,

Brian Schulmeister 14:14
just what you did in space. Exactly. And I threw this one in because I thought it was kind of funny and somewhat topical. And because we've talked a lot about what I would consider to be flawed science before. And there's a bit of this in here. So this is a from ifl science, and it's according to a study this is how to tell if someone's lying to you via text. TLDR it came from the GOP. No, I'm just kidding. That came from Ted Cruz. You know, it's a lie. Anyways, so there is a a popular newspaper that published an article with the title how to tell if women are lying to you in a text and it came kind of from this study. That piece links to a preprint study by researchers at Cornell University that claims that women use longer sentences and non committal words when they want to deceive people. messaging apps. So they got into it a little bit here. And it explains the team used a massive database of existing communicators sent over an Android messaging system by a large number of men and women, including students and non students are like, Yeah, that would be well, that's all lies then see, point one, I made. The points out that pre existing studies investigating lying by texts have had small sample sizes. And this piece of research aims to correct that.

Unknown Speaker 15:27
All right.

Brian Schulmeister 15:28
Very next paragraph, the researcher started with 1703 conversations. And after removing all those that didn't contain any lies, were left with 351. If that is considered a large sample size, I would love to see the studies that had a small sample size. My girlfriend texted me she was at the store lying bitch. There's my study.

Jason DeFillippo 15:51
That's pathetic. I'm sorry. That's just pathetic,

Unknown Speaker 15:53

Brian Schulmeister 15:54
Like, am I crazy? Because at first I just like put the story in for the story. But then I was like, they've specifically went out of their way to say that their research aims to correct small sample sizes, but they have an incredibly small sample size.

Jason DeFillippo 16:06
Yeah, I mean, just just any, you know, get a month's worth of text in any relationship, you're going to come up with more than 351 lies. It's ridiculous.

Brian Schulmeister 16:16
It's crazy. So it goes on to say that women sentences are 13% longer when they're lying, whereas men have marginally longer 2% sentences. So we basically cover up our bullshit with some shit.

Jason DeFillippo 16:27
Yeah, that's I mean, that's what they always say, though, the more you explain the greater chance that you're lying.

Brian Schulmeister 16:33
Yes. So big sample size

Unknown Speaker 16:41
media Academy.

Brian Schulmeister 16:44
So last week, you called media candy or weakened escapism. And I discovered a bit of escapism of my own this this week, I realized I have a basement and I can go sit down there alone and listen to music, which I did. And it was wonderful.

Jason DeFillippo 16:58
It's nice. Yes. And we

Brian Schulmeister 17:00
did get a new common sense with Dan Carlin has called garbage in garbage out. I was very shocked to see that pop up on my phone and downloaded it and listened to it basically, immediately. And I've got to say, as some other people on our discord channel have pointed out, as well. It's good to see the last four years have frazzled him as much as the rest of us.

Jason DeFillippo 17:20
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome back, Dan. Oh, wait, he's not back. This was just a one off. We'll talk to you and again in like five more years when you have another episode out. And this just, you know, my heart grew three times. That day when I saw this, Spotify is big bet on podcasts is failing city says Spotify is a multi million dollar bet on podcasting may not be working out city analysts wrote in a note on Friday to clients, I could have told them that long before. But we did the show. Yes. So here's the deal. They put in all this money. And now the investors are saying, where's our return? Well, there is no return yet because they have not seen any material positive inflection in app downloads, or premium subscriptions, which was the entire point of all that money.

Brian Schulmeister 18:14
So Rogan did not do for Spotify. What howard stern did for Sirius correctamundo Oh, righty.

Jason DeFillippo 18:21
Yes. And that's that's only part of it, though, you know, the Rogen play was to get more people to bring more people into the Spotify ecosphere. The other side of the podcasting thing is Oh, they're generating content now that you know, they don't really have to pay royalties on it it's you know, it's a one and done so that's why they always want to you know, that's why they're big push into podcasting. Hey, look, a bunch of stuff people can listen to instead of listening to music that we don't have to pay anybody for. How awesome is that? Because we're fucking evil. So there you have it. City says Nope, not worth it, sell, sell your stock. Great.

Brian Schulmeister 18:56
Well, I have some more podcasting news. And I personally just love this headline. Apple, the company that basically invented podcasts have reportedly decided to give this whole podcast thing a try.

Jason DeFillippo 19:07
Well, as we know that that headline is bullshit, because they didn't invent podcasts, but they popularized them.

Brian Schulmeister 19:14
They certainly did. And they have been the number one place to go for almost everybody to get their podcasts. But apparently they are testing the waters and talking internally about coming around to a podcast subscription service, which would make sense because they've gone into subscriptions pretty hardcore, because they've got news and fitness and cloud storage, TV subscriptions all packaged together or available separately. It's like build your own and they're kind of going well why don't why don't we throw podcasts in as well to this see previous article yes see previous article but that's why there you go. Also, there is worry that they will be dealing with some antitrust headaches if they do this as well which doesn't make any sense to me because basically everybody goes to Apple for their podcasts now. Anyways,

Jason DeFillippo 19:59
not Everybody about 60% at this point they're getting whittled away on. And the thing is the thing that kills Spotify on podcasting is is their episode terrible. That's one of the main reasons that they're not getting picked up for podcasting, their app, is god awful. The Apple podcasting app, I would argue just as bad. So if they really want to spend money to get people to listen to podcasts on their iPhones, and their AI devices, and their Macs and all that stuff, put a little bit more effort into the app itself and make it actually great. And then you don't have to pay for content because everybody's gonna use your app anyway.

Brian Schulmeister 20:36
So there you go. My effort.

Jason DeFillippo 20:39
Yeah, well involves spending spending engineering time and money, the same thing they're gonna have to do if they're gonna generate content, you know, right, six to one half dozen, the other and they know how to write apps. They don't know how to make content that well. I mean, look at Apple TV plus example.

Brian Schulmeister 20:55
Speaking of pluses are final non streaming plus is about default, CBS all access is about to be rebranded as Paramount plus, alright launch on March 4, and they are hoping to take away attention from all the other pluses. With some originals, including the offer a 10 episode scripted miniseries about the making of Francis Ford Coppola is the Godfather, which sounds awful. A new iteration of MTV is behind the music, which could be okay. It could be good TV. I don't trust the people that are producing things over there anymore. And a revival of the game, which I'm not even sure what that is. I

Jason DeFillippo 21:31
was gonna say what is the game for me is the Michael Douglas movie, the fantastic Michael Douglas movie with Sean Penn. I love that movie is one of the greatest movies of all time. It's David Fincher too, so you can't go wrong there.

Brian Schulmeister 21:44
But I don't know what that is. So it is what it is. plus there will be more than 30,000 additional episodes and movies from Viacom, CBS has various content houses including bt, Nickelodeon, MTV and Comedy Central. Hopefully, they will not pull a discovery plus and only have some of the episodes. Mm hmm. Nice if they did all of them. So we shall see what happens with that.

Jason DeFillippo 22:06
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to do Paramount plus, because everybody knows Paramount and CBS is like, whatever, you know,

Brian Schulmeister 22:13
there's that. And I got a little personal Disney news this week. What will a million distraught Disneyland superfans do now that the annual pass is dead? So during this hiatus, the Disney California parks have been closed, and they've decided to sunset annual passes it. They're all done as of Thursday. And when the park eventually reopens the annual passes will replace by some other loyalty program yet to be determined, according to the parks president can Poe trek which will be bumped guests, I'm sure. So yeah, they're estimated over 1 million annual pass holders and all of a sudden, they're not going to be able to go to the park all the time anymore. It was a really interesting article. And just sad because this was another part of my youth. I think I had an annual pass every year from like 13 until I went off to college.

Jason DeFillippo 22:58
Yeah, I mean, if you live that close, it's a no brainer, no brainer.

Brian Schulmeister 23:02
And I found one more TV show for the kid and I like to throw these in when I find ones that are decent ones. This is called Wild kratts. It's all about animals. It's starts with some actual like science and real learning. Then it goes to an animated thing, which is actually fairly educational for animated and then it ends up with the real animals again at the end. It's non offensive. And that's what I look forward to kids program.

Jason DeFillippo 23:25

Ben Yellin 23:26
low bar,

Jason DeFillippo 23:27
very low bar,

Brian Schulmeister 23:28
low bar, but amazingly hard for people to scale.

Jason DeFillippo 23:31
Yeah. And I got a new TV show that I ran across. It's called the hustler with Craig Ferguson of all people. He's back on TV. I love Craig Ferguson. I used to love The Late Late Show. And this is kind of a it's just a it's a fun game show where they have five people together one person is like it's kind of like the mole but for it not as adventure oriented. A bunch of it's five people sitting around answering trivia questions and trying to figure out who's lying. It's fun. Cool. There's been there's three episodes so far. I actually really enjoy it. We we kind of burned through those first three pretty quick and I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully it'll stick around because Craig is funny. I like him.

Brian Schulmeister 24:09
He is a funny guy. Brian, it's

Jason DeFillippo 24:21
a brave new world. Okay, I had to use brave I tried it. It's working. Vivaldi was giving me so many problems now. Yeah, I

Brian Schulmeister 24:30
saw you posting about all those in our discord and I have none of them. So

Jason DeFillippo 24:35
yeah, whenever I create a new window there's no keyboard focus in the actual location bar which is what is kind of I don't know expected after the 10th time where I you know, get command new and start typing in the URL is not there. And what why is this working? Oh, no focus, no focus. And then the the video problem keeps hitting me over and over again, right on all my devices. So

Brian Schulmeister 24:56
see and this is why parlor can't be on a web based

Jason DeFillippo 25:01
So I just said, screw it. Let's give this a shot. Because one thing I also forgot is, I don't know how I forgot this on iOS. Now you can set a default browser. dope. Yeah. And the brave browser works great. Everything syncs. And it's faster, it uses almost no CPU on on the desktop. I mean, right now we're doing we're doing this over squad cast, I've got three tabs open, and Braves clocking in at about 30%. And of ivaldi, when we would do these would clock in at about 75 to 80. Online. So there's definitely a lot less CPU churn that that problem is gone. With the crypto mining in the background that they you know, lied about and shit like, done. Yeah, there's that. I turned off everything and then just created my little sync circle, and it seems to work fine. It's everything works as expected, which is all I care about anymore. And I know people are still saying that the New Edge browser is the best one out there. And I'm like, okay, so who wants my data? Does brave get my data? Does Microsoft get my data? Does Google get my data if it gets my data? I don't care. This is working right now. I'm gonna give edge a shot just to you know, see how it works across all the different devices. But for now, brave wins. It is in our new world. Sorry. Stick with what stick with what works, man. If it if it still works for you don't switch. But if you start to run into crazy issues like I was having, then it's this is a good alternative. Everything works. And it's fast. Cool. So and we've covered this for a long time, Fitbit has finally joined Google officially the EU gave their blessing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Brian Schulmeister 26:41
And Fitbit CEOs had a huge sigh of relief.

Jason DeFillippo 26:44

Brian Schulmeister 26:45
we're getting our money and we don't have to pivot.

Jason DeFillippo 26:48
Yes, Fitbit CEOs everywhere cried out in orgasmic joy. And of course, because why not? Here comes the naysayers. This is over Business Insider privacy and antitrust experts described Google's $2.1 billion Fitbit deal is sinister. It's crazy. This has been allowed to happen. They say. Oh, and Dr. Christina Faraj, an expert in antitrust law told the insider Fitbit lets you track the vital signs and other intimate aspects of your health. That is invaluable data. No, it has a value on it. That's why they paid $2.1 billion. Let me explain to you what invaluable means. And then she goes on to say it's incredibly sinister. And then Ray Walsh, a digital privacy expert at pro privacy, agreed Google was in a strong position to use data for many purposes besides advertising. He says although Google has promised to keep Fitbit users data in a silo that is completely separate from the data it uses for advertising, it seems plausible that Google will still attempt to exploit the health and location data acquired from the devices. Of course, they're going to attempt to exploit the health and location data acquired from the devices because they paid $2.1 billion dollars for it this weekend, duh. Yes.

Brian Schulmeister 28:03
I mean, none of this is surprising. It's actually a good move for Google.

Jason DeFillippo 28:06
Yeah, yeah. Fitbit gets to stick around even though you know this close right is I got rid of my Fitbit. And that was that was just a coincidence. I didn't even care that Google was taking it Who cares? My nesto works after they bought them whatever. And this one I just this has been making the rounds is over the SF gate I tested the dumbest PP of all time the rich guy COVID helmet that's called the microclimate air. And you do look like a total douche

Brian Schulmeister 28:34
when you when you wear it. The only acceptable wear of this would be cosplaying. That's it.

Jason DeFillippo 28:40
I actually had a plane I think that would be I think it'd be fine on a plane. I wonder

Brian Schulmeister 28:44
if they let you take this on a plane though. I don't know. It's intense. Like if I walked, walked into lax wearing this thing. I'm wondering what would happen to try it?

Jason DeFillippo 28:55
Yeah, this Yeah, I don't know if this guy tried it. I skim the article. And I have to say the reason I put this in here is because it's damn funny writing. Yeah, let's get this guy's pretty good. It was pretty good. It's well worth the read. And in big purchase week since yesterday was the big anniversary of the Northwest Northridge earthquake out here. And we're in red flag warnings and everybody's losing power left, right and center. My roommate and I went halfsies on the duromax xp 5500 e gas powered portable generator 5500 watt electric start camping and RV ready 50 state approved.

Brian Schulmeister 29:29
podcasts must flow.

Jason DeFillippo 29:31
Yeah, I mean, I do have my APC ups backups out here. But still, the reason we actually got this is we have you know, an exorbitant amount of value in our refrigerator with embro because she has to take that for her RA, right. And if the refrigerator goes out, that's like, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars worth of drugs that could go bad. So it's like, okay, let's spend a couple 100 bucks on a generator. That's, that seems very smart to do. So

Brian Schulmeister 30:01
very good purchase.

Jason DeFillippo 30:02
Yeah, very heavy to I can't get it out of the box by myself with 120 pounds and I already pulled my shoulder and back out the other day, just getting into the backyard. So hurry Oh, hurry home, Brian and get out of quarantine so you can come help me move this damn thing. Okay, I'm

Brian Schulmeister 30:16
on it. I've been doing a lot of my weightlifting. So I bought my stuff so I can I can help you with that. So I've been doing a lot of like sitting around at night and just kind of scrolling through the phone doing scrolling and all that sort of stuff. And you know, you do that. And it's been quiet in our house at night, which is nice. But Instagram, Instagram reels are driving me fucking nuts. They ignore any and all sound settings I don't I normally keep my phone on complete mute total shutdown, if nothing is should make a noise. And they put that instagram instagram reels button right where the home button is on my phone. So when I'm scrolling through Instagram, and I'm going to hit the home button and switch to another app, it'll switch to Instagram reels and I will hear cat noises or shitty music or whatever people are doing on reels because I don't care. Loud, very loud. It sucks. And I went to discord, our discord channel and say I guess that maybe it's just me. And I said, Is anybody else experiencing this? Does this happen to you? And of course I got some fixes. But the fixes are only temporary. Anytime you reload the app and he's setting that you did to kind of mute it is gone. And the loud noise comes back. So you know fuck them. That's bullshit.

Jason DeFillippo 31:34
Yeah, well, it's it's Instagram. It's also Facebook, as we know, it should say things never.

Brian Schulmeister 31:40
Like how did that get through Apple's quality control stuff? Because the fact that the app ignores your phone's Uber settings, your God settings, that shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Jason DeFillippo 31:50
That's true. That's true. I was gonna say Apple's not in you know, they're not in the quality assurance business, but if it overrides the actual hardware setting.

Brian Schulmeister 31:57
Exactly. That's what it does.

Jason DeFillippo 31:59
Yeah, it's fucked up. That is fucked up. Ah, yeah, Instagram has become utterly useless. I get three pictures from friends after like seven hours. And then it's just the recommended stuff. And I know that I've got more photos from friends than that. Because everybody tells you Hey, can you go like my photo? And I get there? And I'm like, it's not here. Like, yeah, it is. And then I go to their page and it's there. But when I go to my stream, it's not so it's

Brian Schulmeister 32:22
becoming exactly what Facebook is.

Jason DeFillippo 32:24
Exactly. It's it's I'm like, Okay, why bother anymore? Guess I might as well go post my pictures on parlor. Nobody's gonna see him

Brian Schulmeister 32:33
or everybody does when it gets put up in an attack.

Jason DeFillippo 32:35
Yeah. And speaking of Instagram, I got an ad for this course from Skillshare this morning because I'm a Skillshare subscriber and they send me you know, hey, check out this course emails every day even though I've turned that off to speaking of somebody who can't remember a fucking setting. This is capture Instagram where the portraits level up your portraits with this fun step by step class from YouTube star and photographer Jessica Jessica ko BC. Now, I would like to say that a class to make an Instagram worthy portrait a picture of a turd is an Instagram worthy portrait. You're not really calling the bar high here.

Brian Schulmeister 33:13
You got to light that turd Jason.

Jason DeFillippo 33:14
I know I mean come on. It's like you know Guggenheim where the portrait sure Getty worthy portrait? Sure. Instagram where the portrait? Yeah, okay, we're really devolving here for our artistic skills. That's all I gotta say. Right.

Brian Schulmeister 33:33
And I did find something that I thought would make a good gift for people. This is you know, it's this is one of the rare occasions if I actually saw a friend's actual post on Facebook, and it was actually something that I thought was interesting. And I follow the link to it. And it's from a site called my photo bags. Not the great, Greatest Name. But basically it's you can get jigsaw puzzles and who isn't doing jigsaw puzzles for the past year everybody is, but it's kind of a cool gift. Anyways, jigsaw puzzles from various different magazines, newspapers, etc. From any date. So you could do basically the idea here being I get your birthdate and that's a gift for you The New York Times page from your birthday. And it's as a jigsaw puzzle. Pretty cool. I just thought it was neat idea.

Jason DeFillippo 34:13
Yeah, except it doesn't load for me. yam. Oh, well. None for me.

Brian Schulmeister 34:19
Again, parlor cannot switch to an app based version.

Unknown Speaker 34:28
The library

Brian Schulmeister 34:32
I finally called laundry files bankruptcy and gave up on it.

Jason DeFillippo 34:35

Brian Schulmeister 34:36
I figured you would. I just wasn't getting anywhere in it. And I felt like torture. So I will. I might be done with laundry files. I will return if they returned Bob and the other main characters and all of that sort of stuff. But otherwise, nope. I think I'm done. I did move on to a recommendation from some of the people in our discord channel. The ministry for the future by Kim Stanley Robinson. I'm about third of the way in it's incredibly well written it's it's very very good I don't know how any of you that have ever read this have ever slept ever again.

Jason DeFillippo 35:10
But it's fiction right? You

Unknown Speaker 35:14
should close

Jason DeFillippo 35:16
too close for comfort. Okay Well speaking of too close for comfort I've been reading the stand yeah is also pretty too close for comfort I in the book too now so people are coming together at the at this point in the book out this thing is just I had to stop because I can't I I've been making the mistake of listening to it before I go to bed at night. Oh, not a good idea. Bad idea. really fucking bad idea. wondering why I'm like my my CBD fields subscription has been getting renewed a little bit more than before because I have to like take a big hit every morning just to stay on track. Very well written liking it a lot liking it a lot. I don't think I'm going to go watch the TV series when I'm done with it though. Because why?

Brian Schulmeister 36:06
I think you'll wait a while like if the stand becomes one of those books to you like it did to me where you just you think about it a lot. And you realize just how good it was. You'll eventually want to see the miniseries. Eventually. Not anytime soon.

Jason DeFillippo 36:18
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's so vivid and everything right now it just feel like if I started to watch that, then it would just kind of, I don't want the abridged version. That's what I got the Super Deluxe unabridged with extra ship version. And I'm liking it a lot. Right.

Brian Schulmeister 36:31
And I found this one article and we were talking a little bit earlier about you found an article where the writer was just hilarious. And it was some of the best writing unit read and it's just really, really funny. This article is way up there. The author here decided to review a book that was self published on Amazon because Amazon allows self publishing now, and this is a masterclass on why we need gatekeepers in all media and in particular publishing.

Jason DeFillippo 36:57
If we had gatekeepers, we wouldn't get gems like this.

Brian Schulmeister 37:00
Well, yeah, this is this was this article was so fun to read, and it almost made me want to read the book. almost almost. Yeah, I will just read the title of this article. The link is in our show notes, I highly recommend reading the article in full. My antifa lover is one of the worst romance novels I've ever read. But it does manage one stunning feat, and I will let you discover what that stunning feat is on your own.

Jason DeFillippo 37:21
Yes, it's pretty good article. Pretty good article. But yeah, man if we had gatekeepers. Well,

Brian Schulmeister 37:27
this podcast wouldn't be here.

Jason DeFillippo 37:28
That's true too. That's true to

Unknown Speaker 37:35

Jason DeFillippo 37:39
We're joined again this week by Dave Bittner. Dave is the host of the cyber wire podcast. Dave is also the co host of the social engineering podcast hacking humans with Joe Kerrigan, as well as the co host of caveat with COVID free Ben yelin. Who will be joining us today.

Ben Yellin 37:53
Hi, Ben. How are you guys?

Jason DeFillippo 37:55
I hear I heard you had the plague.

Ben Yellin 37:56
I got the play. I was in the hospital for three days. Which was rough but now I'm like probably immune for a few months so I can go crazy. person if I wanted to

Dave Bittner 38:11
send you to the store to do all my shopping.

Ben Yellin 38:15
People like it's you know you need someone who was can expose themselves in a grocery store. Not literally got

Dave Bittner 38:24
Jason, you got busted for that one. Sydney? Australia

Brian Schulmeister 38:30
is not allowed in a whole foods on the

Jason DeFillippo 38:33

Dave Bittner 38:35
allegedly east of the Mississippi, right?

Ben Yellin 38:39
Yeah, no, ma'am. I'm, I'm back and better than ever, raring to go.

Brian Schulmeister 38:44
Good to hear Oh, good. Before we get going. We have some very important news. There's nothing more important than we could possibly talk about as we follow the travails of Dave and his inability to unplug his time machine. When updating his system. He lost something very important to himself and was even discussing potentially going to Sweden to get get it. I'm here to tell you, Dave and I know you know already because I saw your Twitter feed. The Muppet Show was coming to Disney plus in February, all five seasons. Yes,

Dave Bittner 39:11
yes, this I I am very excited about this. Ben. I know you're a muppet fan, too.

Ben Yellin 39:16
I am and fans. The day got engaged. We saw the Muppets, the Muppets movie, like, you know, the more recent one, not one of the original great ones, but the one.

Jason DeFillippo 39:30
Okay, good, mediocre one that we get as old people.

Brian Schulmeister 39:32
I don't know if we've ever mentioned this. And I don't remember if you were involved in this yet, Jason or for you. It already left the company. But I was working for a company a long time ago. And we did build one of the very first iterations of the puppet website. Really?

Unknown Speaker 39:47

Brian Schulmeister 39:48
I left when we were working on BART is well, it was later than that. So I was one of the lead programmers on the original puppet website. That wow

Dave Bittner 39:58
that's fun. Yeah. Now I'm very excited about the Muppet Show. folks may know the first three seasons of the Muppet Show have been available on DVD. But seasons four and five have not been available. Like many shows, they run into all sorts of clearance issues, because they're all these songs that they used on the show before you had things like streaming rights and all that sort of stuff. So evidently, Disney has ponied up the cash, they're going to show all five seasons. Word on the street is that they found some really good quality copies of these shows. These were shot on video, not film, so there's only so much they can do with them. But I'm excited a lot of these shows I have not seen in a long time. And to me The Muppet Show is really the pinnacle of it's the Muppets at their peak abilities. All right, well,

Brian Schulmeister 40:45
we will pencil you out for any shows posted February 19. For at least right now. Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 40:52
All right. So shall we get to the question at hand for Mr. Ben yelin. Since we got Ben Yellin on the horn, as well,

Unknown Speaker 40:59
let's do it.

Ben Yellin 41:00
So I'm ready for you guys.

Brian Schulmeister 41:03
A listener wrote in last week and asked us a question. And we kindly said, none of us actually happen to be constitutional lawyers, but we happen to know somebody who is Alright, so here it is. Holly wrote in and said, Would you guys kindly have a segment on the show regarding the first and fifth amendments? They kind of go together like peas and carrots? What types of speech are protected by the First Amendment? And what is not? How is this related to private owned platforms, even if those platforms like big tech are viewed as a monopoly, how those things not protected by the First Amendment are often covered in the company's TLS? as an IT professional and not a lawyer? I'm exhausted just listening to these people. And I know you guys are friends with more than a few lawyers. Maybe we can make pamphlets or instructional PowerPoint. More on PowerPoints later, much appreciated. Love the show.

Ben Yellin 41:49
All right, where do I even begin? So first of all, these are great questions. I should note that the First Amendment begins with Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. What that means is it's a right, that protects you against government action, not against private action. And I know this, because there was always some smart kid and eighth grade civics class. You know, when the teacher says something, and the kid starts talking back and the teacher says, You can't say that. And the kid says, it's my first amendment right? And the teacher says, fuck, you know, it's not What school do you owe

Brian Schulmeister 42:23
us, you and a teacher.

Ben Yellin 42:27
But not that much of a paraphrase. But that's the first thing you should know is that it is a right against government action that protects you from being criminally prosecuted for your speech. So there are some restrictions on speech that are generally acceptable under the First Amendment, things like time, place and manner restrictions. I can't go to Dave's house as much as I want to with a bullhorn and scream at him at three in the morning that probably violates some sort of local ordinance. And courts have said, that's fine, because it has nothing to do with the content of the speech. No matter what I said into that bullhorn. It's illegal because I'm, you know, breaching the peace. What the Supreme Court really disfavors are any sort of content based restrictions on speech, basically, anything where they're restricting somebody from saying something based on the content of what they're saying, very rarely will they allow content based restrictions on speech. Basically, any content based restriction is subject to what we call strict scrutiny, meaning the government has to have a damn good reason to do it.

Brian Schulmeister 43:31
Is this where the proverbial you can't yell fire in a crowded theater comes in.

Ben Yellin 43:35
So great. Oh, oh, I

Dave Bittner 43:39
have to eat him up. That is a slow one over the plate for Ben. Go ahead, Ben, take a swim.

Ben Yellin 43:47
I'm gonna swing for the fences here. So everyone always mentioned that as well. You know, you can't say anything dangerous, because it would be like yelling fire in a crowded theater. So a couple of things about that. First, I should note that the quote says the constitution would be protecting you from falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater. People always forget about that part. Second, that wasn't a decision called shank v. United States during world war one that's been largely disfavored. The Justice who wrote the opinion Oliver Wendell Holmes reversed himself and said in subsequent rulings that he disavowed his previous desire to restrict first amendment rights. And that case was about political protesters during World War One. So that line was used to justify restrictions speech restrictions on political protesters during World War One and was largely disfavored. And justice Holmes himself and later decisions said that it's more valuable to protect the market of ideas. So I think that line is invoked too frequently. It does not carry the force of law. It's from a decision that is not you know, among most constitutional lawyers is not looked fondly upon in history. Now, would you would I go yelling fire in a crowded theater? Probably not. It's both the morally wrong thing to do. But to me, it's not entirely clear, depending on the circumstances, whether it would actually be illegal to fire in a crowded theater. Well, I

Brian Schulmeister 45:14
mean, it's great that you wouldn't do it morally. But as we have discovered with the internet, that the third quite an awful lot of people that don't really give a shit about morality.

Ben Yellin 45:22
No, there's not. I mean, whoever Q is, obviously doesn't give a shit about morality, because, you know, he's caused millions of people to believe in a vast global conspiracy. And people have figured out committed violent actions on the basis of that belief. So yeah, there certainly is a moral side to restricting speech. The last thing I'll say on on the First Amendment is that there are certain categories of speech that fall outside of First Amendment protection entirely. So things like false advertising, certain obscenities, certain types of pornography, speech that quote, incites imminent lawless action, and I'll talk about that a little more in a bit. Those are things that don't have any first amendment protection at all. Okay, so in terms of the internet, can the government to restrict what you post on the internet? If it falls outside those areas of First Amendment protection, then absolutely. So that's why the government can prosecute you for possession of child pornography, for example, for things like you know, your internet speech, inciting a riot, the bar is incredibly high. Because the standard and this comes from a case called brandenberg. v. Ohio, is that your speed tests have the tendency to promote imminent lawless action. And the emergency element here is absolutely crucial, will it like directly lead to violence, it can't be something where we're all just talking theoretically discussing what it would be like to overthrow the government, if we're not going to be inspired to literally storm the capital, per that conversation, then it still is protected speech. So if I said, you know, theoretically, it would be better for, you know, so and so to be assassinated. That's that is constitutionally protected speech. If there's a mob of people carrying guns, and that person that I want to assassinate is in view, you know, then we get into some constitutionally squishy territory.

Brian Schulmeister 47:18
What an interesting hypothetical use about storming the Capitol. Now what? What if that actually happened?

Ben Yellin 47:25
I know, I just made that up out of thin air. You know, obviously, our democracy is strong enough that 1000s of people aren't going to breach the Capitol grounds and stormed onto the floor of the House and Senate could never happen. So so that's that's the government side. So what about these platforms, restricting speech, basically, these platforms, it is their full prerogative to moderate content as they see fit. It's their platform, they are private entities, if they want to ban a certain type of speech entirely, then they can ban that that type of speech. You know, I wanted to host, a exclusively conservative microblogging website, and I just decided to delete all liberal posts. Nothing would prevent me from doing that that's a perfectly constitutionally acceptable thing to do, because it's a private entity. Some people will say, you know, well, yes, they're private entities, but they become, you know, somewhat of a public forum, because we discuss all types of policy matters, the President makes personnel announcements on Twitter, it's a public forum. I think that's a reasonable argument to have, I don't think in terms of the constitutional precedent that it's ever likely that a court would hold Twitter or Facebook to be the type of public forum where the government could regulate speech. You know, people have tried to analogize with other cases where, for example, there was an old town in the deep south in the 60s that was owned by a private company. And they tried to put restrictions on speech. And the court held in that case that the private company was standing in as the government. So therefore, the First Amendment could be invoked against that private entity, but that's really I don't think applicable to something like Twitter and Facebook. And what people talk about with this whole section 230 thing is, can Twitter or Facebook be punished or sued for their content moderation decisions, and the way the law is structured right now, with some exceptions, they are largely immune from these lawsuits, because we want these organizations to not have to constantly worry about the threat of being sued when they make decisions about content moderation. So I hope that sort of answers the question. Shall we

Dave Bittner 49:51
move to the fifth?

Ben Yellin 49:53
Fifth Amendment? Yes, I'm not exactly sure. The fifth a diamond has a lot of elements to it. I'm not exactly sure which one One listener was referencing, they're a bunch of Fifth Amendment rights due process, which applies against the federal government. So government cannot take away my life, liberty or property without some sort of due process. Right now, of course, that implies that they can't take away my life, liberty and property just as you know, there has to be some sort of proceeding for them to do that.

Dave Bittner 50:23
civil forfeiture, civil forfeiture civil forfeiture

Ben Yellin 50:26
civil assets. It doesn't say that if they take your property, they must provide you just compensation which, yeah, obviously that's that's not what happens with civil asset forfeiture, right.

Brian Schulmeister 50:38
And the right to tweet is not a god given rights and part of this life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Now, if I were dictator, it would be but unfortunately, that has not happened yet. So

Ben Yellin 50:50
a little bit of time for your right to tweet to be incorporated into the Fifth Amendment. There's also you know, a bunch of other procedural rights, the one that is invoked most frequently is the right against self incrimination. So the Fifth Amendment says you can never be compelled to be a witness against yourself in a trial. And that not only applies to trials, but it also applies in other public government settings. So that's why you see these congressional hearings, some CEO gets up there, you know, he's accused of polluting the, you know, such and such river with his dirty oil, and they asked him about it. He says, you know, on the advice of counsel, I'm invoking my fifth amendment right against self incrimination.

Brian Schulmeister 51:31
Luckily, everybody just posts their crimes online now for us to know exactly who's

Ben Yellin 51:36
storming the Capitol with the metadata. And I'm going to tag all my friends. Oh, and also, I'm wearing a GPS monitor. I am a smart.

Dave Bittner 51:46
Yeah, no. Ben, has it the fifth been rolled into some conversations about passwords and whether or not you're compelled to share your password and so on. Is that, am I right there?

Ben Yellin 52:01
Absolutely. So there's a lot of controversy on this issue on compelled decryption, where the government forces you to either enter in your passcode or, you know, do something like use your handprint or facial recognition. It's a very complicated issue. And there has been a split among our circuits on this. It's something that is currently unresolved. Generally, the right against self incrimination only applies to what we call testimonial evidence. So something that's either written or or spoken. You know, that's where the Fifth Amendment applies. So wouldn't apply it. For example, if you know you were forced to be in a police lineup. So that's why there might actually be a distinction in the law between facial recognition unlocking one's iPhone, for example, using face ID and compelling somebody to actually type in a passcode. Because that's what we say, in the legal world, the content of one's mind.

Jason DeFillippo 53:00
I have a question on this. Now, if I am setting up my phone with facial recognition, and I have trained it, to also recognize a hand gesture in front of my face, that is not just my face, but I'm throwing like a gang sign in front of my face that kind of gives it a unique perspective that I also have to know. Now, would that be? Is that kind of a loophole that could maybe get me out of something like, okay, I'll stare at it all you want, but I'm not gonna do the secret bro handshake to unlock the phone? A couple

Ben Yellin 53:29
of things there that might you know, help? Because conceivably, then you would have to be forced to reveal the contents of your own mind, being, you know, what's the symbol I throw up to unlock my phone? There is this doctrine, however, unfortunately, for you, in this scenario about inevitable discovery, that law enforcement can be can get kind of a get out of jail free card to get somebody information, if you know, it was inevitable that they discover in the first place. So if law enforcement can prove pretty definitively in court that whatever incriminating information they're looking for is on your device, and that you know how to get into your device. courts have ruled that you know, because it's inevitable that that information would be discovered or divulge. You know, we're not actually going to make law enforcement go through that whole process for for Fifth Amendment purposes.

Jason DeFillippo 54:24
It seems like a Schrodinger cat situation, though. It's like, okay, we know it's on there, but we can't get to it. But if we know what's on there, what is it? And how do we prove that it's on there? If we can't get to it in the first place? It seems very much is the is the cat alive or dead?

Unknown Speaker 54:38

Ben Yellin 54:39
or no? Well, who's that artist Asher an Escher painting with the stairs? I don't know where? Yeah. That's kind of how I feel about it. I've never understood the reasoning behind this doctrine. It does not make sense to me. I think it's one of those things where there's been a carve out for for law enforcement because, you know, judges are Just as eager as prosecutors in many circumstances to find incriminating information on somebody's phone

Unknown Speaker 55:05
shocking. I

Ben Yellin 55:06
know. All the strict privacy advocates. That's certainly a doctrine I don't agree with. Unfortunately, I'm the bearer of bad news on what the doctrine is.

Jason DeFillippo 55:16
Well, I hope Holly is satisfied with your answers there, Ben. And I think we have a new show coming called Let me explain with Ben. Legal splaining or Ben yelin fire in a crowded theater.

Ben Yellin 55:31
My fire in a crowded theater soapbox.

Brian Schulmeister 55:35
Alright, awesome. I had one story I wanted to put in here that kind of ties into what we were talking about, specifically the capital riot. And I know this is ongoing, and this is just where it was at late last night. A capital writer allegedly planned to sell a laptop from Nancy Pelosi, his office to Russia. So she supposedly got in there. The FBI is now investigating this. The claim came from a former romantic partner of Pennsylvania woman, Riley Williams, who we do know was there did go into the building, and has been charged with disorderly conduct and entering a restricted building. According to court documents. Williams suppose it acts which who is now identified as W. One contacted an FBI tip line and said she intended to send a laptop to a friend in Russia, who then plan to sell the device to SVR Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service, who claimed to have seen footage of Williams taking the laptop. However, W one said the plot fell through and that Williams either still has the computer or has destroyed it. Now, they have confirmed that a laptop was stolen from a conference room at the Capitol However, they say they're saying it was only used for presentations that made me look up what was Russian for PowerPoint. So So.

Dave Bittner 56:46
Yeah, and she has been taken into custody, by the way, I believe should Yeah, I believe she turned herself in.

Unknown Speaker 56:52
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 56:54
Was this the plot point in my auntie Oliver talks about

Ben Yellin 56:56
the library? I think it might have been. So you guys to write some fanfiction on this. I will say I did see a tweet from someone that got like 400,000 likes. That was basically like, this is my ex girlfriend from middle school. And she stole a laptop from Nancy Pelosi his office and tried to sell it to the Russians. So yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 57:18
I mean, it's pretty crazy.

Ben Yellin 57:20
It's crazy.

Dave Bittner 57:22
So Ben, got one more question for you. Because I think we feel I feel like we kind of skipped over this. And I know, this is probably a question that some of our listeners want to follow up on. So I'm going to be the bad guy and do that, or the good guy, depending on your point of view. So we talked about types of speech and whether or not you are directly inciting people to do things. What is your take on whether or not President Trump in the speech that he made before the capital Riot as to what the legal point of view would be the case that could be made or not as to whether he was actually inciting people to do what they then did?

Ben Yellin 58:02
I think his conduct unfortunately, because I think it's morally abhorrent, doesn't quite meet the legal standard of causing imminent lawless action.

Jason DeFillippo 58:11
What about Giuliani?

Ben Yellin 58:13
Giuliani, to me comes closer, because what he said is, we need to have trial by combat. If that's not an explicit call to violence. I don't know what it is. Now, the problem is that it's it was still largely theoretical, and neither Trump nor Giuliani, you know, work in the Capitol standing next to people with guns, right. You know, there still was a little bit of distance between that rally and the storming of the Capitol. I think that distance is what's going to save Trump and Giuliani from prosecution in this case. It's possible they could be Luckily, there's many, many things that we can prosecute them.

Jason DeFillippo 58:55
Yeah. But even though Trump said, we're gonna walk to the Capitol, I'm going to walk with you, you know, bridging that distance gap, kind of saying, Yeah, we're here right now. But let's go. We're gonna take a walk, guys. Yeah,

Ben Yellin 59:06
you know, so what I always go back to is what Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer set at a hearing a couple of years ago, that Trump is basically a mob guy. I mean, he's lived his life basically, as, as somebody who's part of the mafia, and he knows how to use language, you know, that comes just short of the line of meeting some sort of legal standard. Right. So you'll notice that Republicans in the House of Representatives during the impeachment to be kept referencing the fact that he said we're gonna go to the Capitol peacefully, you know, which is a total wink and nod his supporters who are if not literally carrying pitchforks are certainly figuratively carrying pitchforks. And it's coming in the context of telling them for two months, that this election has been stolen, there was fraud. You know, we're about to affirm the results of the notice That wasn't fair. So you know, in that context, of course, you can understand it in the real world, why people were inspired to commit violent acts. I mean, if you legitimately thought that your government was going to be overthrown by someone who was, you know, fraudulently elected president, you might resort to violence. And so you know, the fact that he propagated that lie, certainly makes them morally culpable. And I know that's not what people want to hear. They want to see him behind bars. I just think because there is that separation between when the speech happened, and, you know, the fact that there was at least an opportunity for cooler heads to prevail, while the you know, this throng of individuals walked towards the United States Capitol. I think that probably releases Trump from criminal liability on that question.

Dave Bittner 1:00:54
All right. That's what I was looking for

Brian Schulmeister 1:00:56

And when we do we'll have Ben yelin. Back to tell us why.

Ben Yellin 1:01:09
That's right.

Just out of shouting Freud.

Dave Bittner 1:01:18
And by the way, might I just add that if this is the sort of conversation you enjoy, you should check out caveat. The show co co hosted by me and Ben Yelena are part of the cyber wire network. This is what we do every week.

Ben Yellin 1:01:32
Yeah, absolutely. It's just more of a PG version of this podcast.

Brian Schulmeister 1:01:37
We bring out the worst in everyone

Ben Yellin 1:01:42
f bombs on that podcast, which is why I love coming on your podcast.

Jason DeFillippo 1:01:49
Okay, gentlemen, until the next till the next

Ben Yellin 1:01:52
till the next insurrection. Yeah, exactly. chatting with you guys.

Robert Fogarty 1:01:58
feedback, look

Jason DeFillippo 1:02:01
over at Patreon we've got a Vernon MCC Manuel and fall in over PayPal, we've got Linda Natalie, Andrew, Logan, Michael, Raj, Nathaniel, Michelle, john, Andrew and Al unless it's AI and it's spelled wrong, I can't tell

Brian Schulmeister 1:02:17
it's ml machine learning.

Jason DeFillippo 1:02:21
We got a PayPal donation that doesn't exist.

Brian Schulmeister 1:02:25
Oh, thanks you all so much. Over at Twitter, DST writes in not something you see every day and this is from Ars Technica, Samsung's top executive gets 30 months in prison for a bark bribery. It's back to jail for Samsung's leader Lee Jae young also aka J. Wiley. So this is a pretty crazy story. I don't think I knew too much about this. It's been a legal battle for something called joy gate in my major 2016 South Korean political scandal that led to the South Korean President Park game he being impeached and removed from office. It's named after the President's top aide Choi soon SIL, a member of a shamanistic cult that was found to be Ambassador abiding South Korean government policy via her influence over the president.

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:08
Yeah, we covered this when it first broke back in 2016. But I guess we missed the whole shadows. like crazy chick. Yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 1:03:19
Pretty crazy story. But, you know, good justice is being served as telcos.

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:24
Oh, go search out the podcast that's all about

Brian Schulmeister 1:03:26
Yes, sure. There

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:27
has to be one right now, of course, in my 6502, right, in another reason to keep looking for an alternative. And this is Goodreads plans to retire API access disables existing API keys if a book falls in a forest. Does anybody hear it? Yeah. Yes, good reads.

Brian Schulmeister 1:03:45
Okay. Yes. News that surprises nobody. They quietly announced the depreciation of their public API's by quietly they basically just shut them off immediately without warning. Yes, it's not many people noticed.

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:57
Yes, it is deprecation that depreciation that I used. I made that mistake to a lot of computer science kids, and they would always mock me. So I'm not mocking you. I'm just informing you so we don't get the emails. So Oh, the emails at home.

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:11
mockery is the sincerest form of informing.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:13

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:14
it's tricky sent a link over to tic toc that's causing me to actually look at a tic Tock video for the very first time ever. Clever, funny.

Jason DeFillippo 1:04:23
Yeah, it's the Animaniacs one if you're the Animaniacs about

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:26
the Capitol, right? Yeah,

Jason DeFillippo 1:04:27
yes. And disgruntled Cincy sports fan writes in never understood why everyone uses Venmo set the public not even sure why the public stream exists. So we can all see that Mary paid Lisa for this month's share of rent to be

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:39
agreed. And Craig writes in as the podcast has taught me if it's locked into an app like Spotify, audible or Sirius XM streaming platform, it's not a podcast and this is a press release from Sirius XM who are saying they are the new destination for original exclusive and popular podcasts. No, you're fucking not you added a bunch of radio programs.

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:00
That's what you do. Yes. And if it's exclusive, it's not a podcast. Yeah. So

Brian Schulmeister 1:05:04
it's just a whole bunch of crap. And actually, this was a very good reminder that I need to be to ensure that I go and cancel my auto renew on Sirius. So thank you for that.

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:14
Yeah, definitely serious. Man. That's just too much money. Yep. In over a Gog dot show. We got bearded in balding who says guys I love the podcast along with the smashing security hacking humans and the tech guy podcast so very entertaining. I realized in a recent episode that you are SW fans that would be Star Wars. I would like to send you a picture of the for Phantom Menace pictures I finally got framed after 20 years I sent the image over blah blah blah. We got the image. Hope you liked them. Just don't make it public or tell Disney Well, we just made it public but we're not going to share the photos. Did you get a chance look at them.

Brian Schulmeister 1:05:46
I did not because by the time I clicked on the link, they had been removed.

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:50
Oh, okay. Well, too late. They're very cool. They were very cool. That's nice. Yeah, so thanks for sending those in Collin. I'm sorry. bearded and balding.

Brian Schulmeister 1:05:58
And armchair Rambo writes in I'm gonna try to get through this parsing here. Hey guys, I don't remember how much for a big shout out but since you $10 PayPal thanks for talking about brave browser I'm using it and observing carefully keep it up and this could turn into something beautiful my biz I'm trying to pimp is rocket surgery studio in I'm assuming that's Minneapolis Yes, I have a basement studio you guys aren't invited either. You work on site and remote now used to go to Harvard you go to online school now. your opinions are among the few a person can take at face value. Now that's valuable. PS you're allowed to be wrong. I love it when you backpedal and tell a story of pure fuckery cautionary tales from the laboratory. Thanks Rambo. Okay, all right. Well, we will have rock surgery studio is in the shownotes

Jason DeFillippo 1:06:41
Yes it is. Vincent writes in Oh my god, Vincent chiminey Jeepers. Okay, we got a few links from Vincent here. WhatsApp clarifies Facebook data sharing his users flocked to rival signal. Okay. Oh man, I have a I have a link somewhere that I have to put in here about how signal is basically a tool of the CIA. Really good. Okay, I got it I gotta make a note of that you guys can go go read that on your own but it's like wow it I found this from an actual source that I kind of trust He's like, yeah, this guy did all the research and found that it was the signal was actually funded by a spin off of the CIA All right, tinfoil hat time.

Brian Schulmeister 1:07:26
Did you just keep text messaging people like it?

Jason DeFillippo 1:07:29
Yes. And Vincent goes on to say I've always assumed anything on WhatsApp was being shared to Facebook anyways. Has uncle Auntie an elder from your various extended circles moved to signal nope not online. I've gotten five notification notifications from signal today one of my contacts is now on signal Welcome to the world of tomorrow should be the automated message from me per notification okay to follow up on my last email about people leaving WhatsApp to go to signal they can't handle it and this is yes signal has been down because it was

Brian Schulmeister 1:07:58
a liability is a bitch

Jason DeFillippo 1:08:00
eligibility is a bitch and send a link to the donating thing over at signal which the other article that I said don't donate they've got enough money in the bank from the government. I'll save my money for Gog dot show slash donate because Fuck it. I assume anything I type is open season anyway. And Hi, if you're reading this you have just won the Spanish lottery kidding. And Dave's funny funny outburst was the funniest thing I've heard in Young's do they use Young's to mean a long time over there across the pond? No, nope, nope. No. And he sent us the link to the urban dictionary definition of yonks. Okay, come on. I guess this would work for people who have moderators and knight in shining armor to shield them from troll baddies. Tracy Chu launched a block party to combat online harassment and abuse This is a link over TechCrunch What do you think? I think my friend

Brian Schulmeister 1:08:51
I think that's a lot that you sent stuff. Oh, good stuff. All right. JOHN writes in just catching up with episodes over here in the UK while in during lockdown again. agreed on a massive hunt not funny anymore. They even comment in the show about how they jumped the shark years ago. I must have been asleep when they made that joke because I fell asleep watching the damn show. Discovery is on UK Netflix so you can use VPN to view it and therefore drop your cbs all access subscription. Yeah, but do they have Picard and do they have the stand because yeah, just

Jason DeFillippo 1:09:26
just power through until the stands over and Yep, exactly. Always back. And then when you come back it'll be paramount plus, yes, they're gonna call it it'll then they'll change it again later, whatever. Hi, Linda writes in Do you remember the over the air television from the 1960s? Did you know it still exists? The point being if you are going to be fed a bunch of crap from both the mainstream media and social media companies you may as well not pay for it. Take back your life. unsubscribe. All right.

Brian Schulmeister 1:09:52
I guess I could get CBS over the air but I wouldn't get discovery Picard or the stands because those are digital only exclusives.

Jason DeFillippo 1:09:59
Yep. Bye. You can buy you can buy an antenna and watch regular TV. I did that when I lived in Chicago. We talked about that on the show a couple times.

Brian Schulmeister 1:10:06
And Dan writes in hi grumps on episode 491. You mentioned Henry Rollins in the film in the 90s. I haven't seen that, but did want to recommend one that he did this past decade check out he never died. It's an interesting film that may only appeal to a small number of viewers such as Henry Rollins, but I think it's excellent. Hank is perfectly cast as a tough guy who doesn't enjoy being around other people. Okay, so he plays himself. Yes. He has a dark paranormal quality that makes for what I consider a satisfying twist at the end of the film, give it 10 minutes and see if you feel compelled to finish. By the way fuck all Republicans in the House except for the 10 that voted to impeach they are spineless cowards.

Jason DeFillippo 1:10:43
All right, Dan. Barrett, right. didn't call me crazy. But I pictured the traders more as motel six type of people than Airbnb type of people. And this is a link to over to BuzzFeed that Airbnb has cancelled all reservations in DC during the inauguration. And I think they just live in their RV is until they blow themselves up personally, but

Brian Schulmeister 1:11:01
I wish they'd Hurry up with that.

Jason DeFillippo 1:11:03

Brian Schulmeister 1:11:06
All right, and over at iTunes. We got a five star rating from Dave for trooper Bittner. I do not believe this is the real Dave Bittner. But he does give it a go to recreate Dave's rant without actually spelling out the awkward. It was quite impressive. Yeah. So yeah, thank you.

Jason DeFillippo 1:11:21
Good job. Good job. If you want your question or comment read on the show, head over to Gog dot show slash contact and send us your feedback, your questions that we can read on the air. And if you're so inclined, please head over to Gog dot show slash review and tosses a five star and snarky review. We're Come on guys. Little few more reviews. Let's go. Let's go. Come on.

Brian Schulmeister 1:11:39
New Year. Get on it. Yep. Oh, I don't know what to say about this one. I like this headline though. Phil Spector transformed pop music and destroyed lives. Yeah. He died. And I just say welcome to club Michael Jackson, another musical genius I will probably never seek out to listen to. And I'll always feel icky when I listen to anything they weren't involved in if I'm in a grocery store or whatever. Yep. And somebody that did pass away from the music world that doesn't make me feel icky. Sylvain Sylvain, rest in peace. He was the New York Dolls guitarist, New York doll dolls are one of those bands that you probably haven't listened to. But every band you liked did.

Jason DeFillippo 1:12:19
Yep. No, they were fantastic. Yeah. Until next time, Jason defilippo.

Brian Schulmeister 1:12:24
And I'm Brian Meister. Thanks for listening to grumpy old geeks. The show is a labor of love but your support keeps the show going. If you like the show, visit Gog dot show slash donate to help us out. It's better going to us than signal will love you forever. CIA doesn't love us they don't fund us. Or visit Gog dot show slash shop and pick up some good old fashioned Gog swag. If you can't do that, please pass the show along to a friend. Word of mouth is the only way the show grows so goddamnit spread the grump far and wide.

Jason DeFillippo 1:12:52
Come on.

Brian Schulmeister 1:12:54
Show Notes for this episode are a Gog dot show slash 492. From there you can find links to old episodes, leave feedback, ask questions, donate to the show, buy our swag and get links to stuff we like. And to check out our new merge swag. There's only been one purchase so far. Stay grumpy

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