Apple vs Epic; Twitter’s verification is back; Chia valuation & IPO; divesting Facebook; a lighthearted look at NFT headlines; US telecoms face no consequences for ripping off the government; Google AI centerpiece of I/O; Virgin Galactic completes flight; streaming Glasto; Gary Numan; the Mosquito Coast; podcasts, podcasts everywhere; Snap’s new Spectacles; Muderbots; Amazon’s Ringopticon; predictive policing; ransomware & hospitals; more data breaches; Citizen’s frightening pivot; caught cheese-handed.

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Show Notes


Tesla driver slept as car was going over 80 mph on Autopilot, Wisconsin officials say

Elon Musk called lidar a ‘crutch,’ but now Tesla is reportedly testing Luminar’s laser sensors

How Apple screwed Facebook

Apple’s Fortnite Trial Ends With Pointed Questions and a Toast to Popeyes

Relaunching verification and what’s next


Blockchain Startup Chia Nabs $500 Million Valuation, Eyes IPO

Tesla, Musk Face Loss on Bitcoin Investment

‘Charlie Bit My Finger’ sold as an NFT, could vanish from YouTube forever

Mark Haines — remembering and honoring a CNBC icon with an NFT auction

The Hollywood Sign Will Be Minted As An NFT

Digital Horses Are the Talk of the Crypto World

CRYPTO PLATES Drop First NFT Vanity Plates on OpenSea

5 Andy Warhol NFTs Are Heading to Auction. Art Experts Question Their Authenticity.

US Telecoms Keep Getting Wrist Slaps For Repeatedly Ripping Off The US Government

Google made AI language the centerpiece of I/O while ignoring its troubled past at the company

Virgin Galactic completes first spaceflight in over two years, in step toward finishing development


Glastonbury Festival’s first livestreamed event ran into major snags

Gary Numan – Intruder

Gary Numan – Random

The Mosquito Coast

Streaming giant Netflix is expanding its podcasting footprint

Head of Audio/Podcast Programming, Editorial & Publishing


Snap’s new Spectacles let you see the world in augmented reality


Network Effect: A Murderbot Novel (The Murderbot Diaries Book 5) by Martha Wells

Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley – Narrated by Michael York


The CyberWire

Dave Bittner

Hacking Humans


Recorded Future

Amazon’s Ring is the largest civilian surveillance network the US has ever seen

Ransomware gang behind Ireland attack also hit US health and emergency networks

Air India breach compromised data for 4.5 million passengers

Chicago’s predictive policing program told a man he would be involved with a shooting.

Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer’s downfall


Neighbourhood Crime Reporting App Citizen Is Testing On-Demand Security Force

Leaked Emails Show Crime App Citizen Is Testing On-Demand Security Force

Private Security Force That Works With Citizen Wants the Power to Arrest People

Crime App Citizen Exposed Users’ COVID Data




Robert Fogarty 0:02
Grumpy Old Geeks, a weekly talk show hosted by Brian Schulmeister and Jason DeFillippo. Discussing the finer points of what went wrong on the internet. And who's to blame.

Jason DeFillippo 0:16
Welcome to grumpy old geeks I'm Jason DeFillippo

Brian Schulmeister 0:19
and I'm Brian Schulmeister

Jason DeFillippo 0:20
I had a good weekend, Brian. I left the house and went out of town.

Brian Schulmeister 0:24
I saw that. Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 0:26
So what did I that was great and go out of town. But I left the house. Let's so yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 0:31

Jason DeFillippo 0:31
Thank you. Thank you. It was it was nice. And it was weird. And I got to fly my drone over the ocean, which was fun.

Brian Schulmeister 0:37
Yeah, that hung out with friend of the show. Bob. It was nice to see photos.

Jason DeFillippo 0:40
Yes, yes. He's looking very svelte. He's lost. lost a bunch of weight. So that was very cool. And, yeah, we went to a pub with no beer. Believe it or not. We went to the one Irish pub that they had. And we're like, I have a Guinness. We're out. Like, do you have anything? They're like, No, we've got what I had. Like I had like a Stella apparently a worldwide beer shortage.

Brian Schulmeister 1:07
Well, you know, it's it's like that Monty Python skit, everything opened up. We didn't expect such a rush.

Jason DeFillippo 1:13
Doubt. So I did also go drinking with your friend Brian blondell. The other day. Oh, nice. And he heard the show. And remember, I was trying to figure out who that chick from the Nevers looked like, and he said Jessica Jones and to me, bingo. That was it. Nailed it. Nailed it in one. Well, yeah, I

Brian Schulmeister 1:30
have not watched the show. And I did a quick Google image search for the actress. And I was like, No, not at all until I saw some screenshots from the actual show. And I will give it to you in the show with the makeup and the hair and the you know, grimacing face from the action shot. Yes.

Jason DeFillippo 1:47
And the fighting and the Snark and she basically is Jessica Jones in the show. Jessica Jones and abattis.

Brian Schulmeister 1:55
Nosek wrote in so nobody at Tesla thought that maybe we could build some sort of system where the autopilot stops the car when police are trying to do that. And this is Tesla drivers slept his car was going over 80 miles per hour on autopilot, Wisconsin officials say. And yeah, I mean, look, every week people are sending us stuff about how crappy auto pilots are and AI driving is yet somehow there are still true believers out there. So you know, I got into it a bit on Twitter last night. But please do tell me again how it's just so much better to have a shitty AI Android app over Bluetooth. Run your car. Please do. Just keep telling me. It's wonderful.

Jason DeFillippo 2:28
Yeah, the speaking of the self driving car. Looks like there's two sides to this story here. Okay. Ilan has in the past called LIDAR, a crutch, the you know,

Brian Schulmeister 2:37
stocks in line are going down.

Jason DeFillippo 2:41
But then, a gentleman in Florida actually saw some LIDAR on a car, which was a Tesla stocks going right back up, stocks in LIDAR going up? Yep. But it comes down to in 2018 earnings, called Musk said in my view, LIDAR is a crutch that will drive companies to a local maximum that they will find very hard to get out of. He added perhaps I am wrong, and I will look like a fool. But I am quite certain that I am not.

Brian Schulmeister 3:08
Well, right. Well, I'm okay with that. Look, he learned. All right.

Jason DeFillippo 3:12
Well, one person said that they might be using the LIDAR to do a side by side comparison between their auto draw the their self driving in LIDAR assisted auto driving the process and a B testing. Yeah, yeah, just what you want on the road.

Brian Schulmeister 3:27
Well, that's my point about all of this. This is not stuff I want on the road next to me. I do not want an AI Android app driven car on the road next to me right now test the shit first. Well, Brian, we

Jason DeFillippo 3:41
figured out how to stop this. You just got to tape some orange cones to the back of your car.

Brian Schulmeister 3:45
That's all it really takes right? or wear my red stop sign t shirt.

Jason DeFillippo 3:49
Mm hmm. I'm telling you. It's easy. It's easy stuff. So that's just it's very funny. We'll see if Ilan looks like a fool. This week. He's made.

Brian Schulmeister 4:01
What thing is as he looked like a fool for now.

Jason DeFillippo 4:04
I saw this one over at wired, how Apple screwed Facebook and just kind of a follow up on basically how the the ad market for Facebook is in trouble because everybody is saying yeah, you know what, Mark? We don't want to be tracked.

Brian Schulmeister 4:18
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, regardless of whether or not they can still track you which they can. It's a big black guy for Facebook, it kind of proved that their business model holds no water that people are not cool with it that they've been putting up with it because they kind of didn't understand it. And when given the choice, they go well, that's kind of evil. We don't like that. And I had my my come to Zuckerberg moment this weekend, finally, and I've finally fully divested myself of Facebook. I can't make any claims to be an ethical investor, but I do somewhat try. And for fuck sake, I just cannot invest in this company anymore. They seem committed to bringing down democracy and screwing human nature and people.

Jason DeFillippo 4:57
Yeah, pretty much pretty much But remember, they still own Instagram? And yes, in new Instagram moves? Well, we mentioned that they're going to be doing an NFT marketplace soon. And now they're released. They're looking into it, they're looking into it. They're also looking into doing basically Patreon for Instagram type of things like everybody's doing now. And right, which makes sense, because if the ad markets drying up, they need a need revenue streams, what is a more perfect revenue stream by being just a middleman so content creators can get paid? shocking, but they can take their pound of flesh? You know,

Brian Schulmeister 5:35
right? What's driving me crazy about this is as a content creator, you look at this playing field, right? And it just I know, this is an old person reference, but it reminds me of like, if you were a musician in the early 90s, because all of a sudden, you make your product, you put together your album, you put together your podcast. Is that good enough? Nope. Now I have to write three songs for AOL exclusives, I have to write four more songs to be shitty. Besides to sell the hell out of my CD singles. I've got to do another song for the K rock acoustic Christmas album. I wrote my album by my fucking album.

Jason DeFillippo 6:11
No, that doesn't work that way.

Brian Schulmeister 6:14
And that's what it's like for us now. Like, if we look at the playing field, okay, so if we really want to try to monetize, Alright, so now we have to do an extra like maybe 20 minute podcasts that we can put on Apple and charges subscription for in addition to our original podcast. And and Oh, wait, hold on. Now we can do a thing on Twitter where we get paid extra if we do extra content over there. And now we can do extra content on Instagram and get some money over there. Plus, we have our Patreon. I mean, how much stuff are we supposed to make here? Well, don't

Jason DeFillippo 6:44
forget locals calm. We need that one, too. There's, there's no no,

Brian Schulmeister 6:47
there's that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah,

Jason DeFillippo 6:49
no, this is this is the rise of the middle man economy. We saw this happen. You saw it in music. In blogging, it was a thing to you know, here's the services, so you can pay for blogging, and we've now we've got it with what substack and newsletters. Everybody's trying to get in the middle of the people who are creating the content and the people who want to pay for content, and just siphon off as much money as possible, thus killing their own market, because the people who make the content can't make enough money from the people who want to pay for the content, because all of the the soul sucking middlemen in the middle are taking all the fucking cash. So yeah, and the apple with the new was a 10 or 14.6 update that just came out yesterday. Now you can have paid podcasting in Apple, if you pay them $20 up front, and give them 30% for the first year and 15% after that. And I'm like no, no, for the fact that one of the main reasons is your app doesn't fucking work half the time now because of your new, you know, awesome system that you built. You know, this is mailroom talent over there building the podcast app, and you want us to trust our livelihood with you who can't even figure out, you know, how to not turn my feed off for the rest of the world? No, thank you. Your Your time is, you know, the great steward of podcasting is coming to an end quickly. Quickly, we are out of all of the apple charts now. And I'm guessing it's because we told everybody, hey, Apple podcast somewhere else? Yeah, the people that could listen to us, you know, heard heard the call and the credit arm saying Yeah, yeah, Apple podcast is fundamentally broken right now. So maybe you want to go find something else to use. So we are completely out of the charts. And I know a lot of other people that have fallen completely out of the charts, too. So.

Brian Schulmeister 8:34
And speaking of that, I saw that you've put us on YouTube, which is another great revenue model for creators.

Jason DeFillippo 8:40
Well, the thing is, since we're out of the I don't care about the revenue from it, that's about discoverability. It takes me an extra hour to put the video up there. Because every everywhere I go, everybody's listening to podcasts on YouTube. And I'm just like, okay, here's the deal, at least we'll get some new listeners, and we'll figure it figure it out in the future. But for an extra hour, since we are out of like every chart on the planet, we need some way to get out there. That's not going to cost us a boatload in ADS. And I did a bunch of research this week on ad providers and like those castbox ads, man, oh my god, you pay, you know, 510 $1,000 for a run on castbox your your downloads go through the roof, but the attrition rate after your, your run of network isn't over? Is like it's like incredible.

Brian Schulmeister 9:26
I mean, it's like could just mean we suck.

Jason DeFillippo 9:28
No, no, I Well, we didn't pay for it. We can't afford it. But I've seen people who can afford to pay for it. I mean, it drops. It's like an 80% attrition rate, which makes me feel like are those downloads real? You know, if you don't if you're if you're losing 80% of the audience who they're, you know, putting you in front of, it's like, either your podcast has has a fundamental problem. Or, you know, oh my god, somebody who's taking your money for advertising might be lying to you with the numbers.

Brian Schulmeister 9:54
feels a lot like when I used to take over an artist site and I would get the mailing list. I would do the first mailing and like 90 percent was a bounces like huh, huh? Huh? What did you stack this mailing list with previous person that did this job?

Jason DeFillippo 10:06
Yeah, seriously, seriously. So the apple fortnight trial is coming to an end, the closing arguments were yesterday. And, you know, when we when that first started, we talked about it. And I know, I thought that I was like, 100%, that Apple is going to win it. And I and I thought you were pretty much on the same side, too. But it seemed that way. It doesn't seem like that anymore. It's 5050. It's a crapshoot right now.

Brian Schulmeister 10:31
It's funny, because if you could feel the tide turning as this trial has gone on and on, right, like you could feel like all of a sudden, like everybody was kind of pro Apple, and then they're like, hang on a second, what this 30% is kind of bullshit.

Jason DeFillippo 10:42
Yeah. And the more you know, the more people started to come out of the woodwork because a lot of developers are scared to publicly talk about how Apple hates their developers. Because they, I mean, they're just an enemy to the people. And we're seeing a lot more people like trying to come out and say things, because if you you know, you raise the ire of Apple, you're screwed as a developer, because you then you can't get your your app through. I mean, they hold all the keys. So yeah, you know, I found myself switching to the other side, I'm like, you know, yeah, let's get some more alternatives in there. And let's lower this 30%, because it is kind of usury. And, you know, make it like, it was a great argument in the, in some of the testimony, make it like the Mac, make it just like the Mac, you can have an app store for the Mac. But you can also have, you can just load an app if you want to.

Brian Schulmeister 11:29
You know, that's that's the thing that I always never understood. And that's what I think would be fine. Like, I don't have a problem with Apple charging 30% to use their payment gateway, as long as they allow you to use others if you are so inclined. And if you have the acumen and the engineers to go ahead and build in a different payment system into your app, so be it. But if you want to be lazy, or you don't have that kind of ability, and you just want to use Apple's system, okay, they can charge what they want.

Jason DeFillippo 11:56
Yeah, but I mean, to do that you need a secondary app store, or another way to sideload apps that makes it you know, possible to do that. Because right now, the only way to put an app on your phone without jailbreaking it, is to use their store. And they do take a hit on, you know, bandwidth and things like that while while it's in the store. So it's like, okay, alternate stores are fine, give me an alternate store where I can host my own binaries to install. And you know, then you're just out of the loop. That's, you know, that's the way the Mac works. You know, if I can be a developer and have my app signed, just like I do on a Mac App, you get $200 a year out of me for that. So it's not like it's, it's like, it's time to kind of, I think, break the break that chain. I'm kind of down with Epic on this one. So I don't know, we'll see how it goes. The judge seemed to be pretty in the middle. So I don't know, fingers crossed on that one. And I was listening to, I think I was listening to this week in tech. And they started they were talking about how Twitter is relaunching verification, Pa.

Brian Schulmeister 13:02
Yeah, there was news articles everywhere when this came out, because it's still, you know, everybody still wants that blue checkmark. And sure, they they tell you, it's coming. And it's gonna, well, actually, the articles just make it sound like it's already there. So I immediately checked and of course, there's no option for our podcast account or my personal Twitter account to even apply yet. So

Jason DeFillippo 13:22
yeah, exactly the same here. I checked, my personal is not there yet. So I checked it, I've made sure the app was updated. It is so it's not there yet.

Brian Schulmeister 13:29
There are 100% going to get slammed with this. Absolutely everybody is of course gonna apply immediately. That's actually on Twitter. So that makes me think there are one of three options that's going to happen. The first is they'll do next to nothing, and very few people will actually get verified because that's historically what they've done. The second is they have some sort of AI that will go through accounts, and if they have a certain amount of followers that will probably get approved. And if you don't have that number of followers, you probably won't. And the third is they are just gonna fucking approve everyone that applies. I'm done

Jason DeFillippo 14:01
with that. That's what they should do. Upload your ID if it's you approve,

Brian Schulmeister 14:06
then you're verified.

Jason DeFillippo 14:07
Yeah, you are the verified person. It's like if you want to have super triple dingdong verification where you get super celebrity status, then you know, create that tear but as a as just a regular user of Twitter. I know I am me. And I would like people to know that I am me. Except for those drunk tweets then they can then I can say my accounts been hacked.

Brian Schulmeister 14:27
My accounts been hacked. But that person that was fighting with you that wasn't me. Look, I think Twitter is just I wish jack would actually spend some time running the company.

Jason DeFillippo 14:36
No, no stripe or square makes way more money.

Brian Schulmeister 14:40
I know I know. But look, if you're going to make all these noises about going all in on subscription model which I would love Twitter to do tie verification and with that, I've got to give you my credit card to give you the subscription and do it tiered thing. So if you you know if you have under a certain amount of followers, you don't pay anything if you're fucking king. Kardashian with 20 million followers, you're paying a shit ton of money per month, but you need our credit cards, you verify us through that done and done, tie it together, make it the big push to get people to move to the subscription model or at least collect the credit card. I don't understand why people don't ask us to.

Jason DeFillippo 15:15
It's not like jack doesn't have a company that I don't know collects credit card numbers, credit

Brian Schulmeister 15:19
card and verifications. Yeah. In the news,

Jason DeFillippo 15:31
she is in the news again. Whoo. They got a $500 million investment.

Brian Schulmeister 15:37
Hold on a second. But you're investing in money.

Jason DeFillippo 15:41
you're investing in the company that creates the software to make the money right.

Brian Schulmeister 15:44

Jason DeFillippo 15:45
Yep. That's how it goes. I mean, 500 millions of big when they I think they had, like 16 or something before that. Cuz I know true ventures was in because I, I know those guys and I knew that they were in but So the interesting thing here is it came out of this article, it says our goal has always been to go public relatively quickly, is that will significantly clarify our regulatory environment and allow customers to use currency to hedge public market volatility, which is different from other coins. So they are they want to be regulated. They want to play by the rules, because they want government entities to use the damn thing. You know,

Brian Schulmeister 16:22
I applaud that. I like that thought. However, going public and regulation are not tied together hand in hand. I'm looking at you Uber. It's true. Like, just because you've gone public doesn't mean shit about regulatory environments.

Jason DeFillippo 16:38
Hmm, well, so Okay. They're trying here's the deal. They're trying nobody else's try.

Brian Schulmeister 16:43
So I'll give you that. I will give you that nobody else in this space is attempting to self regulate, or, you know, maybe some people have made some vague noises about flow regulation would be fine, but nobody's doing anything about it. Hmm.

Jason DeFillippo 16:56
What are the investors said? The coin is auditable, secure and regulatorily compliant, making it user friendly for monetary authorities and multinationals. Okay, I don't know what regulatorily compliant means in in this case, but here's the deal. They're trying that's all I care about, as long as they keep on try and keep on keeping on.

Brian Schulmeister 17:16
All right. Well, we got to, uh, two letters from people that are listening that are both about chia and questions about it. And I've decided, Jason that you actually have gone the wrong path. You should not be doing podcasting videos and chats online, you should just be talking about cheah 24. Seven.

Jason DeFillippo 17:32
Yeah, except I'm out of the game now that that whole thing is over, like the the early adopters and getting in to start mining, like the micro farmers as they're called. Yeah, you late, it's too late. I mean, there was such a narrow window to do that. That I mean, there's over probably, like, I think I checked last night, there's like 10, and a half exabytes on the network. And I think there's probably 11 now it's going up by like an exabyte, every day and a half,

Brian Schulmeister 17:58
which is a you're actually better off just buying rather than mining.

Jason DeFillippo 18:01
Exactly at this point. It's like it kind of normalized to around 900 like eight to 900 right now. And I think that's probably a good price to buy if you can find a place to buy the trust, right? I'm just hanging on to mine and my farms running it's just going I'm not I'm not plotting anymore. Because, you know, why? Why waste the electricity on the fact that I'm probably never going to get another coin out of them. I mean, it's, it's the lottery at this point. I've got 50 terabytes of farm, which is a lot of hard drives. So it's like the best way for me to do it right now is to just since they're brand new hard drives they've only been running for like, you know, three weeks, punks him up throw them on eBay and make a fortune because hard drives cost goddamnit now

Brian Schulmeister 18:45
Yeah, well I remember some Bitcoin people were doing that with their graphics cards yet. Like they just went I'm gonna make more money reselling my graphics card than I'm gonna make mining.

Jason DeFillippo 18:53
Yeah, cuz once once you hit that tipping point, there's there's almost no coming back. You know, so I'm just gonna hang on to mine for now. It was a fun experiment. Like I got out of it. What I wanted. I got to mine some coin. I got some coin, I got to see how it works. You know, I'm still on the keybase. I'm watching the chat. But yeah, as far as running your own farms anymore, it's like you're going to spend way too much to basically try and get lucky. pooling is coming up soon. So people will be able to take every you have to replot and then you can join pools if you've got the hard drive space, but that'll give you a chance to get more chia. But it's going to be tough because the Chinese have basically just you just run ram shot over everybody. You can't

Brian Schulmeister 19:36
call them pools. They should have called them gardens.

Jason DeFillippo 19:39
I know. Yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 19:40
You gotta you gotta stick with your branding people.

Jason DeFillippo 19:42
I know. I think they do. They just went with it because that's what Bitcoin, you know, coined. They'd coined the term with the coin. Now, speaking of Bitcoin, actually, there's one, the one that I wanted to just talk about real quick here is Paolo asked. He made The noob mistake of buying an si es HDD instead of a SATA HDD and he's trying to figure out how to connect that to his aces rogue Strix 590 f mobo, which sounds like it's a completely made up string of words, but palla jump on the discord and ask the Ask the crew over there I have no idea if it's if it's a PC, I'm like if it works, it does work. If it doesn't I send it back to the store and get something that does. I don't know. I literally don't know my SAS from my data. nerd alert. Yeah. And more Bitcoin news musk faces loss on Bitcoin investment. Because apparently it has fallen below the price that they paid for it.

Brian Schulmeister 20:39
But here's the thing. All he's got to do is tweet. He did it's gone back up again, Jason because he tweeted something positive about Bitcoin. Now I know all the naysayers and bit bros out there gonna say it wasn't just that he tweeted about it. Instead, it's an actual change. That's gonna make it better. Oh, fuck you is because he tweeted about it. And if you tweet something shitty about it tomorrow, it's gonna go down again because he controls the goddamn market. It made it and move on. Pretty much.

Jason DeFillippo 21:07
Yep. And since it was a slow news week, I told you I've been getting I have a Google Alert for NF t now because Yeah, because it's it's the best Morning News. Cuz

Brian Schulmeister 21:21
Well, there was a big one this week that went everywhere with a very misleading you know, headline, Charlie Bit My Finger was sold as an NF T and it could vanish from YouTube forever. Spoiler alert it won't it get. No it can't. No, it can't. YouTube has one of the best machine learning algorithms out there for trolling for content known demand. And they do that because massive record labels will come out them and sue them who's gonna fucking sue them for taking down a video that was bought by one person?

Jason DeFillippo 21:50
Yeah, three no music bought that bought it. So? Yes. Yeah. For $760,999.

Brian Schulmeister 21:58
Yes, it was Charlie Bit My Finger. So there you go. And they're saying that it was going is now going to be memorialized on the blockchain.

Jason DeFillippo 22:05
I know. Mm hmm.

Brian Schulmeister 22:07
Again, but going back to what I said, How come nobody's bought dancing, baby.

Jason DeFillippo 22:11
I know. What's that? What's up with that one?

Brian Schulmeister 22:13
It's too old. We're too old. We're so old that a meme that we grew up with that was on the internet when we started is not even remembered by anyone anymore.

Jason DeFillippo 22:22
Yeah, tron guy was trying to get an ad up there. White wise Chocolate Rain not up there.

Brian Schulmeister 22:27
Come on. Why? Why is why is all your NFT belonged to us not up there.

Jason DeFillippo 22:31
I know. Well, come on. Come on people. I'm surprised Sean Bonner hasn't sold his Elian. What's up? video thing that he made ages ago? Remember that?

Brian Schulmeister 22:44
Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so somebody bought it. And now everybody's all like it might be gone forever. Except it won't because there are a gazillion copies of it if you really need to actually see it again, which I mean, who the fuck does

Jason DeFillippo 22:56
and remember it? Yeah. And NF t does not it. It's just a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, which we'll talk about in a second. This one though. I'm like Mark Haines, remembering and honoring a CNBC icon with an NFT auction. 10 years to the day since our cherished colleague Mark Haines passed away. CNBC is honoring him by auctioning and NFT of his historic market call at the depths of the Great Recession. He called a bottom in the stock market at 9:47am. Eastern Time on March 10 2009. At a time when the markets were in complete chaos. Mark was a voice of reason Mark famously said I think we're at a bottom I really do. Okay, here's the deal. If I if when I'm dead, I give nobody permission to make an NF t out of anything I ever did. Period. You heard it here first.

Brian Schulmeister 23:48
I am. Luckily we can all just ignore you. That's true.

Jason DeFillippo 23:51
That's true because I'm dead. So they're going to NFT the video, the video and sound so you get it's not just him miming we're all screwed. I love how they have to say the NF T is the actual video and sound of Mark's call is it happened? No, it's not. Not the actual video. It's not.

Brian Schulmeister 24:11
It's a recording of it,

Jason DeFillippo 24:12
the recording of it that's been processed through 17 layers of crap and all that. Whatever. In addition to the main NFT auction, 50 gifts, marking the bottom color also being sold at $1,000 each. Okay, okay. All right. who's buying the ship? No, Jesus, how stupid is that? Well, the Hollywood sign is going to be minted as an NFT.

Brian Schulmeister 24:38
Again, again,

Jason DeFillippo 24:41
fucking sign. It's a physical thing, whatever. Yeah, this is the great money grab. And I mean, granted, they're still like working through. They haven't quite figured it out yet. They're going to commission an artist to make the NFT and then sell that and the money will go to the Hollywood chamber community. The foundation to aid in local charitable initiatives related to homelessness, education, diversity and inclusion. Take the money, guys, take the money, make that NFT and take the money and do some good with it. I'm fine with that.

Brian Schulmeister 25:11
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, but you and I could just like say go hiking at Runyon tomorrow and take a photo of the Hollywood sign and go ahead and mint that as an NFT.

Jason DeFillippo 25:20
I don't know how that works with the copyright law with that, since somebody owns the sign, but since it's in Rob, like I, I'm pretty sure you have to pay a licensing fee.

Brian Schulmeister 25:29
Hmm, interesting. Yeah. I was out on the street tomorrow. And somebody took a photo of me and wanted to put that as an NFT. They could interesting.

Jason DeFillippo 25:37
Oh, I think you could sue. Maybe, maybe not. No, no, if

Brian Schulmeister 25:41
you're out in public people can take photos over you can they know?

Jason DeFillippo 25:43
Yeah, but you can't monetize it. So you have to have a release for that. So

Brian Schulmeister 25:48
yeah, that's why we used to carry around. I'm sure everybody that's doing NF T's is following all the laws.

Jason DeFillippo 25:52
I know. Isn't that great? Isn't that great? And, yeah, I mean, if we're selling the Hollywood sign I got I got the Brooklyn Bridge to sell. Yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 26:02
Well, john Cleese already covered that Jason

Jason DeFillippo 26:04
dammit, john, he drew a

Brian Schulmeister 26:06
picture of the Brooklyn Bridge and sold it. That was his big joke a couple of weeks back, it sold for just under 18 etherium whatever the fuck that was worth at the time.

Jason DeFillippo 26:14
It was worth $1,977.28 on April 1, so he grossed $35,158.81. And for all the work that he put in that seems kind of low compared to what his day rate probably is.

Brian Schulmeister 26:28
And why didn't he do an NF T of a dead parrot?

Jason DeFillippo 26:31
I Well, you'd have to get the rest of the crew involved and you probably didn't want to split the money. He's greedy that way. I'm guessing and I can't believe we missed this one. Digital horses are the top of the crypto world. Okay, now Yeah, whatever. It's like you know, crypto kitties and all that stuff. And these are called breathing NF T's. I I have no words. I have no words. That's

Brian Schulmeister 27:01
what's a breathing and ftg

Jason DeFillippo 27:03
apparently has its own unique DNA and it can be bred with other D with other crypto wars. I yeah. I know. We're old. There's a State Farm. There was a stud farm. There's racetracks now too. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 27:26
God, I hope the puppy bowl doesn't FTS this year.

Jason DeFillippo 27:31
Oh god, this one comes out of Dubai. crypto plates are the latest collectible in the NFT space. They are extremely scarce blockchain number plates.

Brian Schulmeister 27:42
I hope you can take them to a digital rage room. God smashed them.

Jason DeFillippo 27:47
No. My god, I love it. Each plate is a one of one edition meaning there are no two plates the same because it's a fucking license plate. That's all it is. It's a it is a it is a Photoshop template that you can write whatever you want on and then you can pay a lot of money that

Brian Schulmeister 28:06
checks it against the database to make sure somebody else didn't write that one. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 28:11
And then you can buy it

Unknown Speaker 28:14
and that's gonna be worth something. So

Jason DeFillippo 28:18
right now crypto plates is running a launch offer where the first 100 personalized crypto plates will only cost you point 005 eath which is about $20 and I'm sure the gas cost for that is probably a lot more to personalize your own crypto plate head over to crypto dash points comm slash personalize. Or you could just burn your money or go to Gog dot shows or slash GOG. There you go. Finally, finally, five Andy Warhol NF T's are heading to auction art experts question. Oh, after the House announced the sale on Wednesday, some experts objected to it claiming that the works being auctioned copies. Do they not know what they're getting into? That's what it NFT is just a third copy.

Brian Schulmeister 29:08
I mean, in all fairness, if there was ever an artist that would have leapt into NF t would have been Andy Warhol.

Jason DeFillippo 29:13
Yeah, yeah. 100% Yeah. Oh, God, man.

Brian Schulmeister 29:18
I just what a stupid fucking segment. Let's never do it again.

Jason DeFillippo 29:22
I don't know. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Oh, man. Yeah, take a breather, take a breather. And I love this one. Us telecoms, keep getting risks. labs are repeatedly ripping off the US government. at&t keeps getting busted. And after someone who has spent eight hours on the phone with my roommate this week, yelling at at&t good. Take them for everything. They've got eight hours, eight hours going through different customer service reps around the world. All named Mark, Dave. Steve, Steve. Finally. Marry for Mumbai got us got his fixed, I'll tell you the one that you got a time it just right because the the one time that I've always had the best luck with at&t customer support our women in India, nobody else is either the women in India or the women in Georgia, those are the two that get it figured out. But the ones in Georgia don't really, I guess since we're on the west coast, we don't get access to them very often because it was

Brian Schulmeister 30:27
like, I gotta tell you, I'm in customer support is just so bad these days, if there are physical locations left for whatever you're trying to get customer service with, go there because if you're in their face, they have to fix it before they get rid of you. Oh,

Jason DeFillippo 30:41
she was screaming at them. And I'm like, Okay, let me let me step in, see if I can help there. And then within five minutes, I was screaming at them to like, it is the most maddening, maddening thing you have to deal with. We're like, we've done that we've done that we've done that we've done that. We've done that. Can I talk to a supervisor, what can I do? What country are you in? Okay.

Brian Schulmeister 31:01
I mean, we're not we're not big on praising companies on this show, because we like to find things that are horrible, but and in no means am I endorsing Verizon, but I've got to say I've never really had many problems with Verizon as my as my cell phone service provider eight problems with at&t. Oh,

Jason DeFillippo 31:18
yeah, they are the worst the worst. No, well, I love is Google made AI language the centerpiece of i o while ignoring its troubled past at the company. And this is just really fun. They're like, ai ai is great. AI is great. And everybody's saying, you know, that report that the girl wrote that you fired?

Brian Schulmeister 31:38
Yeah, you know, all those ethics people. You fired about your AI? Yeah,

Jason DeFillippo 31:41
yeah. What about that? Um, well, you might want to go read that. You might want to go read that because

Brian Schulmeister 31:47
Google's like, we have AI ethics now. Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 31:52
It's just, it's like, you know, one hand not talking to the other PR is definitely not talking to the engineers and the ethicists. Oh, wait, do they even have any left? Are they fired them all?

Brian Schulmeister 32:01
I don't even know. That was a division. I don't think there are too many people left.

Jason DeFillippo 32:04
Yeah, people seem to keep moving around. In very good news. Virgin Galactic completes first spaceflight in over two years and step forward to finishing development. So that Unity has gotten up to 89.2 kilometers or about 293,000 feet. I watched the video looked awesome. Yeah, good for them. Good for them.

Brian Schulmeister 32:24
I can't wait until I can visit the first virgin megastore in space.

Jason DeFillippo 32:30
Can you play vinyl in space? media candy.

Brian Schulmeister 32:47
Speaking of vinyl, the Glastonbury Festival was this weekend, the huge festival that occurs in England every summer that I have never attended, but has always been on my bucket list, except for the fact that I'm now old and camping in mud does not sound fun to me anymore. So I did try to attend the first live streamed event that they did this weekend because COVID and all that sort of stuff. But it did not go well. 1000s of ticket holders faced technical trouble that either locked them out from the start of the virtual performance or kick them out during the performance. They made a free stream available because what else do you do when something like that is going horribly wrong in real time you just go Damn it and open it up to everybody. But you could only rewind that by an hour. So the earliest parts of the show were inaccessible. This was done by a company called drift. Because they have two eyes in it. They promise access to the May 23 live streams as well as a link that would let them watch through May 30. Who so people who couldn't tune in for later showings were also promised ticket refunds. So that's unfortunate, because this is a big one and they just

Jason DeFillippo 33:47
cocked it up. Maybe they got mud in the series of tubes. Maybe.

Brian Schulmeister 33:52
And you know, there was a good point. And the good thing to this because they were meant to support charities and music industry staff who've been unable to work to do to the pandemic. So this unfortunately means some money will not be going their way. Hopefully they'll kick it in.

Jason DeFillippo 34:04
Yep, yep. But fortunately, there are now jobs that drift because they need some new ID guys.

Brian Schulmeister 34:14
I read I get it. I know we're running out of names people, but come on.

Jason DeFillippo 34:17

Brian Schulmeister 34:19
And speaking of music, I just saw this. Gary Newman has released a new album and it's actually quite good. It's called intruder. I gave it a good listen. Gary Newman is one of those guys that I know has influenced everybody I listen to and I dip into now and then but I've never been a mega fan of or anything but I've got to say the album is really good. What it really made me do though is go and listen to my favorite Gary Numan album which isn't a Gary Newman album because it's Gary Newman covers by other artists called Gary Newman random Okay, and that came out back in 1997 of all things but it featured people like Damon Albarn from blur repopulate itself Jesus Jones all covering great great songs by Gary Newman. My particular favorite is dub stars every day I dive links to both in the Show Notes.

Jason DeFillippo 35:00
Cool. Yeah. When I lived with a friend of the show MX V, he got me into Gary Newman. We'd have it on the radio station in the house all the time. And I quite like Gary. Yeah, yeah. It's

Brian Schulmeister 35:11
great stuff. Yeah, it's just again, I never sit down and listen to a Gary Numan album. Yeah, it's true. I should do that more. I'll

Jason DeFillippo 35:17
do it more often. And I tried to watch the Mosquito Coast on Apple TV plus,

Brian Schulmeister 35:23
this is the we're running away to Mexico show.

Jason DeFillippo 35:25
Yeah, that one okay. And they're running from the US government but they're not saying what he did they have too much Bitcoin.

Brian Schulmeister 35:34
They didn't pay taxes on their Bitcoin satoshis Oh, that'd be the end. No,

Jason DeFillippo 35:37
it's he's Satoshi Nakamoto that's what it is. That's the that's the twist.

Brian Schulmeister 35:42
Oh, God, that would be so good. I would want i would love the show if they did that.

Jason DeFillippo 35:46
But here's the thing you're never gonna find out. We watched two and a half episodes of this thing. And all they kept saying is like, you know, the kids are running with him like Dad, what did you do Dad? What did you do not now son, not now daughter. And so I went and I found a review on Roger And he was like, yeah, we watched the whole first season we still don't know in a row like this. I'm not watching this. They they're saving it for season two. And I'm like, you're not going to get me to season two if you don't tell me what the fuck is going on.

Brian Schulmeister 36:16
They're trying to be a lost season two will have an inexplicable polar bear.

Jason DeFillippo 36:20
It's never explained. They have to keep running back to the United States to press the button. The numbers the numbers are bad. Oh god and just in speaking of, you know, our time in podcasting is probably has it has numbers ticking down as well. Streaming giant Netflix is expanding. Its podcasting footprint great. Just what we need more fucking carpet baggers. But there is a job for the head of audio and podcast programming editorial and publishing here in lovely Southern California. If you're so interested, which I am not, I would I would rather pivot and start a new career, then go back into an office.

Brian Schulmeister 37:01
I don't know, man. I think the job would be good for you. But you know. Alright. On to the next cheer. Yeah, exactly.

Jason DeFillippo 37:07
Do you know where Los Gatos is?

Brian Schulmeister 37:09
Yes, I do. Where is it? Know where you want to be? Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 37:16
Ups and doodads.

Jason DeFillippo 37:19
snaps back in the news with their new set of spectacles that looked like a pair of Ray Ban fucked to the cybertruck. They are hideous.

Brian Schulmeister 37:27
They are very ugly.

Jason DeFillippo 37:28
Unfortunately, you will never be able to buy them because they're just going to developers.

Brian Schulmeister 37:33
Oh, well, that just means eventually there will be a vending machine in Venice Beach. Exactly. Again, just like before, except this time around, it will be set on fire by the homeless.

Jason DeFillippo 37:43
You guys have a fire problem over there.

Brian Schulmeister 37:46
Man every day.

Jason DeFillippo 37:47
Yeah. So yeah, that's going to people who make the lenses and AR effects. And I you know, I watched the little video demo. It's cute. It reminded me of something Nintendo made in the 80s. Or, you know, like the PSL 1000 was just a little square. In the middle of the screen. It was cute. how pissed

Brian Schulmeister 38:08
off is everybody in this space at Magic Leap? Like putting out their bullshit videos that that they could never create? So when we actually see what these things can do, we're all disappointed.

Jason DeFillippo 38:18
Yeah, thanks, Magic Leap.

Brian Schulmeister 38:20
Thanks, magically That was awesome. The library. I read two books this week. Whoo. I was gonna go back and I was gonna read the latest murder bot novel by Martha wells. And then I realized I didn't read the previous novel. So I went back and read that one network effect a murder bot novel, which is a series or book five and the murder bot diaries. thoroughly enjoyed it. Really. I think it had been so long since I'd been in that world that I was out of it and barely remembered anything. So it was great. I thought it was wonderful.

Jason DeFillippo 38:58
I can't remember where I'm at. That's the problem.

Brian Schulmeister 39:01
Well, I didn't either. So I did finish that one. And it was great. And I immediately bought book six. So I will be starting that this week.

Jason DeFillippo 39:08
Okay, how long is this one? Are they still short?

Brian Schulmeister 39:11
Five was pretty long. Six is short. Okay,

Jason DeFillippo 39:14
so cuz Yeah, the first couple were short so we binged them and then just got kind of tired of the murder bot for a while. And I think I think I got through I think I got through three so I need to read four or five and six now. Yeah, but yeah, I put them on my Kindle my actual Kindle because I like reading those guys this is the kind of the only way to get those is on Kindle. I there's no audio version yet. I'm sure there's going to be a major motion picture any fucking moment but you know,

Brian Schulmeister 39:40
I'm okay with that. Yeah, I'm okay. If they if they keep if they keep the tone of the book if they don't, you know if they basically make it Robocop where you know that he kills everything. Or she whatever. She I'm fine with that. If they water it down and you know, we get a cuddly robot. I'm going to be pissed.

Jason DeFillippo 39:57
You know who would be perfect in this Jessica? He owns the real one or the real one, not the not the Nevers, one, the real one.

Brian Schulmeister 40:05
Okay. Yeah, I agree totally perfect. I also read project Hail Mary by Andy we're at your recommendation with Janda disaster porn. It was the Martian with potato replaced by spoiler alert. The twist it was good I really did like it. I don't know what happened with the second book hated that one. But love the Martian and love project. Hail Mary.

Jason DeFillippo 40:30
Yeah, the second one wasn't bad. I didn't think you hated it.

Brian Schulmeister 40:33
But I enjoyed I didn't like it like this one. I really did enjoy this one. I found it hard to put down.

Jason DeFillippo 40:39
Yeah, it was good. It was really good. You know, it is the Martian, but like you said with the twist and I, I read it in a day and a half or listen to it a day and a half. I couldn't put it down either. Sam thoroughly enjoyed it. One that I should have put down was I went back and re listen to brave new world by Aldous Huxley, narrated by Michael York. Okay, um, I had to drive I went down to San Diego. So I'm like, Ah, you know, kill the time. So I put it on because I haven't I barely remembered that book. And the book that I listened to brave new world by Aldous Huxley is not the book that I remembered in any way, shape or form. I haven't totally confused with another book that I read. I think the last time I listened to brave new world was I got I bought it in 2008. So I haven't heard it in 12 years. Right. And I forgot most of it. And I shouldn't have listened to this one again. It's not a happy book.

Brian Schulmeister 41:32
No, no, no, it's early dystopia. Yeah, yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 41:37
Pretty spot on for written it was 1932. Huh? Yeah. Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good. At least it's good in a futuristic, you know, sense of predicting the future pretty bad. If you want to pick me up happy book.

Brian Schulmeister 41:51
I never would have recommended that if you wanted a joyous car ride.

Jason DeFillippo 41:55
Even it made my trip all the better. Because when I got into the car much shit, at least I don't have to listen to that crap anymore. It's a good book. It is but it's just not what I was in the mood for coming out of coming out of a dystopian 80 or 19 months in living in a garage. Going to see the sun for the first time. And then I just dive back into dystopia. Yes, I

Brian Schulmeister 42:14
agree. Yes. Not what you want to be reading right now.

Jason DeFillippo 42:16
I have chosen poorly.

Brian Schulmeister 42:24
So Dan wrote in and said, Hey, good news, even private corporations can get in on authoritarianism. And this is a link, neighborhood crime reporting app citizen is testing on demand security force. So they've pivoted from being a place where it was just an app where users reported incidents in their neighborhoods, and then we get safety alerts. Notably, my last day of using it was when I was informed about Lady Gaga as dogs being stolen.

Jason DeFillippo 42:50
It was my last day do for a while, which was in

Brian Schulmeister 42:53
Hollywood, which I am nowhere near. So thanks for that citizen. They also attempted to do some sort of COVID-19 contact tracing for a bit, which I never signed on for because I saw how crappy their app was to begin with, and figured I'm sure probably shouldn't give them that information too. Because God knows what they're gonna do with it. But now, yes, they are trying to be Uber for bodyguards, so you can use the app to hire bounties and start people going around and doing vigilante esque sorts of things. So that's great.

Jason DeFillippo 43:22
Yeah, what can possibly go wrong? Well, they could offer a $30,000 bounty against a person that falsely accused of starting a wildfire. Okay. I when the example a exactly, I put it back on my phone because we had a pretty big incident in the neighborhood. Because my friends at the liquor store down the street got robbed. It was all over the news for days, these gang of ne'er do wells came in and Rodman literally tried to throw they almost hit him in the head with a wine bottle that they threw across the store. But it was on the news, like every night for a week, just like, like they haven't caught him yet. But I talked to one of the guys today and I apparently they have their names. So they're probably going to get get caught. Because here's the thing, if you're a criminal, and you're going to rob a place, you shouldn't put a Taft high school football team patch on your backpack if you don't want anybody to know where to find you guys tap Tyson. Exactly. So I put it back on, and immediately started to get shit from everywhere else. The only nice thing that they added to the app was the fact that you get notified when a helicopter flies overhead and it'll tell you what it's looking for, which is kind of cool. But it just says you hide. Yeah, so they also

Brian Schulmeister 44:40
Dog the Bounty Hunter has been hired through the app to find you.

Jason DeFillippo 44:43
Yeah. Although he's pissed off because he's got to give 30% tim Apple for for the right to confine.

Brian Schulmeister 44:51
And he's got to pay the $20 onboarding fee.

Jason DeFillippo 44:53
Exactly. Exactly. God Yeah. And they want the power to arrest people now, which is great. Yeah,

Brian Schulmeister 44:59
no We have we have stuff for that.

Jason DeFillippo 45:01
Yeah the police. Yeah, yeah. Oh god and like we don't have enough police department. Ooh bird. I know. Call Paul Blart get him on the case.

Brian Schulmeister 45:16
God What is wrong with people?

Jason DeFillippo 45:20
And yeah, so that COVID data that you were talking about Yeah, that was that was leaked. Oh, did that get out? Oh imagine that Imagine that. Yeah, I didn't put mine in either. I was tempted to and then I'm like, wait a minute these guys can't figure out where the hell I am level two anything else though? Yeah, I think the citizen app is now what's the what was the one where you could tell it your neighbors are racist. Next Door next next door Yeah, yeah, this is this is firmly in the land of next door now.

Brian Schulmeister 45:50
Well, no, you use us next door to find out what person with too much melanin is walking around your neighborhood and then how you can use citizens to hire somebody to go arrest them. It's the one two punch hmm they should they should bundle that. Yeah, I'm you know, I'm all about the the private market and capitalism. Totally taking over these things. That's great. That's it's not at all why we have established the society the police department. No, we definitely need the private industry to step in because they do such a good job.

Jason DeFillippo 46:28
Security. This week as always on security, huh? We are joined by Dave Bittner. Dave is the host of the cyber wire podcast co host of the social engineering podcast hacking humans with Joe Kerrigan co host of caveat with Ben yelin, where they discuss law and policy as well as surveillance and privacy. And finally, he's the co host of recorded future where he takes you inside the world of cyber threat intelligence. Welcome, Dave.

Dave Bittner 46:53
Hello, gents. Good to be back, Hulu.

Brian Schulmeister 46:56
So no tangents. First, we're going straight into like actual security. To me,

Jason DeFillippo 47:02
I was just getting ready to say off the air we were talking about cicada land in lovely Maryland. But I wonder if you can stick a USB stick up and make it look like a cicada to sneak it in somewhere. Stick it in the back of your shirt to get through security.

Dave Bittner 47:19
I we are ankle deep and cicadas right now. And they are they're humming outside. And it's mostly a nuisance. They don't really get in the way of anything. But they're everywhere. For sure.

Brian Schulmeister 47:30
Well, something else that is everywhere. The ring cameras. That's my that's my that's my awesome segue.

Dave Bittner 47:37
There you are, you're just the master at segways. Now we've talked,

Brian Schulmeister 47:41
we've talked to a great degree about the ring cameras before and I've made my position on them very clear, which is I can't stand them. I think it's crazy that somebody can have a camera that captures me in my own house, all that sort of stuff. We've talked about the police integrations and all that sort of thing. And yet somehow with us discussing this all the time and it being negative. We got a one star rating that said we were pro Amazon ring and we're bastards I'm still scratching my head over that.

Jason DeFillippo 48:07
Yeah. And that we promote Chrome.

Brian Schulmeister 48:12
Yes, we promote chrome and ring. And that's all we do. And we are we are we are being completely idiotic and actually doing horrible things. Obviously have never listened to our actual show, but they're right.

Dave Bittner 48:23
It's gonna say to these people actually listen to the show. Clearly they do not. They just go to the show notes and make their decisions.

Jason DeFillippo 48:30
Well, we have a theory that they do work for Firefox, because they did point out that we should use Firefox and now every time I go to Facebook, I mean, Twitter, there's a promoted tweet for a giant promoted tweet for Facebook everywhere. So Firefox for Firefox, so I blocked them. That's what you get.

Brian Schulmeister 48:51
Alright, so I bring this up because the Guardian had a very nice article, a very long article saying that Amazon's ring is the largest civilian surveillance network The US has ever seen. Or as I like to call it the ring opticon is now here. According to a letter, okay, in 2020, a letter to management was sent from Max Lazar, who is an Amazon software engineer. And as we all know, in tech companies, when letters to management are sent, they are filed in the appropriate place the trash can, and ignored. So he said ring is simply not compatible with a free society. And the Guardian argues we should take his claim seriously, and gets into a lot of things that we've talked about quite here. They're saying that Amazon's signature Home Security product could pose a serious threat to a free and democratic society, which, you know, he would go it's a doorbell. How could it do that? right yet? Here we are. Because the surveillance network is spreading rapidly is extending the reach of law enforcement into private property, expanding the surveillance of everyday life. And what's more user ring users agree to release video content to law enforcement and here's what I did not realize there is no way to revoke access once you have granted it and a few limitations on how that content Can be used stored and with whom it can be shared. So they are saying that ring is effectively building the largest corporate owned civilian installed surveillance network that the US has ever seen. An estimated 400,000 devices were sold in December 2019. alone. That is crazy. To me. That's a lot. And that's, you know, there's already rings everywhere. And I know when I go for a walk, if I see a camera, it's on somebody's doorbell, it's inevitably a ring. They are they are the number one device out there. And kudos to Amazon for that, because they made it cheap. And they made it easy. Is it good?

Jason DeFillippo 50:34
I was gonna say this is no, the highlight of it is you can't tell who's who on set doesn't really matter.

Brian Schulmeister 50:40
cicada goes by and it doesn't capture it.

Dave Bittner 50:45
That's a feature not a bug bug.

Unknown Speaker 50:49
Oh, well.

Brian Schulmeister 50:50
So yeah, I was wondering what you guys thought about this? Because I mean, obviously, we've talked about it. I think there's, there's no disagreement about this article from these three people. Yeah.

Dave Bittner 51:02
Is it the network effect that troubles us the most? I think in

Brian Schulmeister 51:06
other words, it's, you know, it's there. They're just expanding everywhere now, right? Like, you're kind of an odd man out if you don't have a ring camera at this point. And yeah, because everybody has it that has just created this entire wall, a panopticon, it really has started to create that right now. Right?

Jason DeFillippo 51:22
Well, what bothers me about it is the warrantless side of it. And the fact that once you give them permission that they can just go in because I didn't, I didn't realize that I thought that they had to ask for permission for every piece of video that they collected. And that's not good.

Brian Schulmeister 51:37
That's not really nice. Like, once you once you opt in, you're in. Mm hmm. And there's no way to opt back out.

Jason DeFillippo 51:43
Well, my backyard ring camera will be on its way out right now.

Dave Bittner 51:48
I wonder if there's a technical solution to opting out, could you just make it so that it's you know, how whatever they're looking for is no longer there. Even though you're still using it on your network? Could you isolate it somehow, I wonder, or is it just because it's connected to the ring network, that that's how they get into it.

Jason DeFillippo 52:03
That's the only way you can see it, you know, it's got to go. Basically go through the ring network unless you want to do a live view, but you can't record anything then which kind of defeats the purpose of it. So yeah,

Brian Schulmeister 52:14
as they point out in this article, too, because ring cameras are owned by civilians, law enforcement are given a backdoor entry into private video recordings of people in residential and public space that would otherwise be protected under the Fourth Amendment. So much like last week, we were discussing how government was doing an end round around privacy's and things like that by buying data that they couldn't collect themselves. This is a very similar approach for law enforcement to get access to things that they wouldn't normally be able to get access to.

Dave Bittner 52:43
Are they really so to what degree do we think that they're doing an end around on the Fourth Amendment? Come in I'm coming at this from the point of view that the ring cameras are pointing towards public spaces. And as we've talked about many times, there is no expectation of privacy in a public space not all

Brian Schulmeister 52:58
of them across the street in my private house in my and I just don't have my my blinds drawn, you're pointing into a private space.

Jason DeFillippo 53:06
Yeah, I have right a mine in my backyard is pointed to a patio area. That is not you can't see it from the street, but I have a ring camera there. So I'm alerted if somebody comes in the back yard in the middle of the night. So yeah, that's beds private. That's a private space right there. That's why I'm saying you're asking for a technology solution. I think a hammer party is probably the better solution technology solution.

Brian Schulmeister 53:33
You should be able to store your video yourself on your own device and not have it go to some or just opt out from the beginning and don't give the police this stuff but people don't do that.

Dave Bittner 53:42
Yeah, and just to be clear, here I'm just playing the what if game I'm not necessarily on the side of these arguments that I'm making. But I'm sure Amazon's are cutting

Brian Schulmeister 53:52
a check.

Dave Bittner 53:53
That's right. Lighting cigars with $100 bills. This

Brian Schulmeister 53:56
is what they call spice right calm pesos? Yes. Yes.

Dave Bittner 54:00
The high quality ring camera that was sent to me for free. But so but Jason for example, wouldn't you be liable to falling under peeping tom laws if you set up a camera that's looking in a neighbor's house? You're already breaking the law?

Jason DeFillippo 54:18
Yes, you have to go back to paparazzi if it can be seen with the naked eye without enhancement I believe that's the rule. So that's what that's how paparazzi to get buses they use telephoto lenses to look into neighbor's houses. And the the there is no zoom really on ring cameras so they are kind of like wide angle view so they are that less detail going into someone's house the farther away that a camera is the less detail you get want especially the wide angle so it's like yeah, they might be pointed at I might be pointed at someone's house but it's going to be four pixels and I'm not going to be able to really see much right but again, sir, around though but they can skirt the law with that by saying that I'm not using any kind of enhanced visual tool to look into that house because I'm not using a telephoto lens on the camera, okay? Because as

Dave Bittner 55:09
I say, we're not violating the Fourth Amendment, then because we're not. If it doesn't violate the peeping tom law, then it shouldn't violate the Fourth Amendment. Because if we're not violating someone's privacy, then we're good.

Jason DeFillippo 55:22
Yeah, I think I think that's correct. Actually, I don't like it. But I think it's correct,

Dave Bittner 55:27
right. So I agree. The whole thing creeps me out as well. But I'm just trying to draw the draw the lines here? Do we have a problem with somebody setting up a home video camera watching their front porch? If the footage goes nowhere, but to themselves?

Jason DeFillippo 55:45
I don't. I mean, no, we've had those for forever. It's the network effect with it, like you were saying. And it's also the fact that if somebody wants to look at that video, they have to come to my house, they have to give me a warrant to get that footage for me. It's not the right and just, you know, I can see, I can see that what was really tripping me up here is that unreal, vocable access, because, yeah, my neighbor's house gets robbed. And I have video of people going and like breaking his breaking into his home or his car across the street. So I want to give that to the police. The only way you can do that with ring is to give them access. I mean, you can create a shareable clip, I guess, and send that but then does that still open you up to it? That unreal vocable access is like I want I want to give them one time access for this time slice from this single camera. Yeah, it sounds like they're taking that and running with it and going, whoo, we got him now we got all the footage. And is it historical? Can Is there a time limit on how far they can go back? You know, what's the what's the length of time that they can look at this stuff?

Dave Bittner 56:47
So Right, right, so so you get the robbery of the neighbor across the street, but the police also get your meth dealer coming to your house.

Brian Schulmeister 56:55
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, not what you want. Right.

Jason DeFillippo 57:00
Right. Now so I it's funny, I made a I sent I sent this to you guys, because I made a you, Brian, you're calling it the ring opticon. And it's a bad thing. But I thought of a way that you know, Facebook could monetize this. And so over a constant need that exactly what I do now that now that ad

Brian Schulmeister 57:19
revenue that we're taking their advertising money from? Yeah,

Jason DeFillippo 57:22
fair point. Yes, is the advertising revenue is, is drying up. I made this little ad that on my live stream on at around the last week that I think could really help everybody out and kind of solve some of these problems. So let me play for you real quick. This episode is sponsored by pan optic condos by Facebook. Tired of having to take all of your own influencer photos and video introducing Ben up to condos by Facebook. Our new luxury spaces are for the true influencer. Our units are all powered by portal 2.0 technology. So wherever you go in whatever you do, our advanced AI is always watching and working away tirelessly in our offshore sweatshops to seamlessly capture the best photos and video for you automatically. tag them with the hottest trending tags and upload them to Facebook and it instantly no more swiping through your images to find the best shots. Ai takes care of it all in with our new voice activated NFT marketplace. All you have to do is shout monetize when you're ready to cash in on that hot new sandwich you made for lunch. The best part is your pin up to condo is 100% free studio started 750,000 followers all the way up to the pen houses starting at 10 million followers at pan out to condos by Facebook. We don't want your money.

Brian Schulmeister 58:44
We just want your life sounds like we produced a bit

Jason DeFillippo 58:48
I know I just came up I came up with that I came up with a sister product called the pan up the gun which you can spray around your house to get rid of all the security cameras.

Brian Schulmeister 59:01
Oh that's good. I haven't I think an octagon Yeah, yeah, I

Dave Bittner 59:05
think panopticon does is brilliant turn of phrase. I love it.

Jason DeFillippo 59:08
I love it. Thank you so I think ring needs to jump on that bandwagon and figure out a way to to at least give us a kickback you know if we're going to be giving them all this free footage or maybe we get maybe we get those stickers you know you know that scam that they used to run with the the highway patrol and the local law enforcement stickers that you put on your car that people would cold call you for in the middle of the day and say, we're calling you sir to talk about given to the policeman's fund if you send us $100 we're gonna send you some stickers that you can put on your car and I can't say sir that they will get you out of a ticket but I can't say that they won't. Okay, it hurt. It can't hurt like

Brian Schulmeister 59:45
firefighters did that. Well, if you've got that sticker on your house, I guess we could put out the fire.

Jason DeFillippo 59:50
If not my well and and donate it. Yeah. And I fell for it when I was a kid. And I had them around when some had broken into my neighbor's house across the street and I had cameras going, but I didn't catch the thing. But they searched my house and took me down and fingerprinted Mika's book to police. But I had those stickers. And that was a long story. I think I told it on an early episode of the show, but he saw those stickers. He's like, you know, these are a scam. Right? Like,

Dave Bittner 1:00:20
yeah, you know, the thing with the with the insurance companies used to be true, though. They used to used to put a shield on your house, if you were because fire departments were funded by insurance companies, you had private fire departments. And so if you paid into the fire department, you got this shield that you could put on the front of your house. And if you didn't have the shield, they'd let your house burned down. Nice. Yeah, nice. Yeah, I know this because a friend of mine is concerned. Certainly. I have a friend. Evidently there are still some communities that that go by this. There was a story not too long ago, five years ago or so about this very thing happening where someone had not paid into the local fire service and their house caught on fire. The fire department came and they let the house burned down because them's the rules.

Jason DeFillippo 1:01:08
Well, we need crowdfunded fire departments now like we have crowdfunded police with

Dave Bittner 1:01:16
Oh, yeah, these socialist fire departments that that we enjoy, you know, where they'll just put out the fire in anybody's house. I

Jason DeFillippo 1:01:22
mean, where's the where's the funding that

Dave Bittner 1:01:24
justice in that? Yeah, exactly.

Jason DeFillippo 1:01:26
Do you guys remember the movie cuffs? I do not with a K with Christian Slater and mia yovanovitch. Back in the day. He was he he ran like a local police department in the neighborhood that was kind of like one of those things where like the police wasn't, you know, part of the whole city you had little privately funded police departments is a really weird premise. But yeah, cuffs with the K, I highly recommend going back and watching that. I don't believe it has legs, but it's one of Christian Slater's early works. Well worth the watch. Yeah.

Brian Schulmeister 1:01:58
Letting that one go go down history as it was. Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo 1:02:01
Me as topless. Oh, that she's been topless. And every other movie she's done

Brian Schulmeister 1:02:05
was like best. Yeah, that's sable solar movies. Right, right.

Jason DeFillippo 1:02:09
So that the ring thing kind of ties into a little bit of this next story that I got from the verge, which was a very long read, but it's called Chicago's predictive policing program told the man he would be involved with a shooting, but it couldn't determine which side of the gun he would be on. Instead, it made him the victim of violent crime twice. This is a chilling, chilling story that is, you know, Minority Report. Come come to life. Did you guys get a chance to read this one?

Dave Bittner 1:02:40
I did. And in fact, I think I'm gonna use it tomorrow. And caveat is my story.

Jason DeFillippo 1:02:45
Yeah, it's, it's I mean, I was. I was like, I'm really angry. Like, it's

Dave Bittner 1:02:52
Yeah. I mean, you got this guy. He's just sitting there minding his own business going about his life. I mean, he's had a couple of minor run ins with the law, but no violent crime, no felonies. And this black box algorithm decides that he's the guy who's going to be trouble. And so the cops start tailing him everywhere. And now the neighborhood doesn't trust him. And he ends up getting shot

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:16
twice. Yeah. And the funny thing is, they say that, like, sir, we don't know what's going to happen to you, but our algorithm say that you are going to be involved in the shooting, you might be the shooter, or you might be the victim, we are going to assume that you're the shooter. And that's, that's where it really went wrong. You know, it's like, okay, it's a this is it should have just this article should have just been called self fulfilling prophecy.

Dave Bittner 1:03:41
It Yeah. I bet you had he lived in a different neighborhood, they will the police would have assumed he would have been the victim. Right?

Brian Schulmeister 1:03:47
Yeah. Or been a slightly different color. Yep.

Dave Bittner 1:03:50
Yep. a different shade of human and he would have had a very different relationship with the police and how they went about spending their time with him,

Jason DeFillippo 1:03:58
really puts the minority in Minority Report.

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:01
Yeah, at some point, can we come to some sort of consensus that perhaps this whole algorithm thing that we're trying to base? Absolutely everything on right now? Isn't fucking working?

Jason DeFillippo 1:04:13

Brian Schulmeister 1:04:15

Jason DeFillippo 1:04:15
have you seen Google I? Oh,

Dave Bittner 1:04:17
come on. This reminds me, the original cast of Saturday Night Live. So we're talking mid 70s. Right. They did a bit where they said, you know, according to recent statistics, a man is attacked five times a day by violent crime. We found that man this guy, he's just walking down the street and every, you know, 30 seconds somebody comes in beats the crap out of them, but it was it was that kind of I mean, I don't mean to make light of this man situation because it is tragic. But

Jason DeFillippo 1:04:55
why is nobody stepping up to help him sue the Chicago Police Department

Brian Schulmeister 1:05:00
Somebody will, I'm sure I

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:01
don't think this is like a decade old issue with him now.

Dave Bittner 1:05:06
And, and they have stopped doing it right they've they've retired these last year systems. Yes. You can't rush these things JC. You gotta bring some money. You gotta you gotta ruin a few lives before you give up the life ruining system. You just have to make sure you Yeah, you got to make sure that the first few lives weren't just an anomaly. Yeah, I

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:30
mean, if you want a true AV test, then you really have to run the numbers for a long period of time. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, just this thing just in by the end of the article. I just felt, you know, I felt beaten down for the guy, you know,

Brian Schulmeister 1:05:44
Yeah, me too. No, me too. sad story.

Dave Bittner 1:05:46
It really is sucks. It really is. Yep.

Jason DeFillippo 1:05:49
Yes. Talk about somebody who needs a GoFundMe? Yeah.

Dave Bittner 1:05:52
I hope he I hope he finds justice. I really hope Yeah, some way that he finds justice because he was wronged. Yep.

Brian Schulmeister 1:06:01
Alright, so we also have a ransomware gang that's going around attacking healthcare systems hat tip to Vincent, who in his own very hobbled Irish way and whiskey way has kept us up to date on now, this has been going on in Ireland for the past couple of weeks. But apparently they have moved beyond just Ireland. Now bleeping computer and Gizmodo have noted that the FBI is issued a flash alert warning that this ransomware group behind the Ireland attack has also targeted at least 16 health care and emergency networks, including police and 911 dispatch centers here in the US. So this is called the county ransomware. And it's believed to be under the control, of course of the Russian based wizard spider, great name cyber crime King. I've loved the names, man. They're just so good. But yeah, I think we've we've talked a lot of times about this about how boy, it'd be nice if these guys had a bit of a conscience and just left, you know, hospitals and health care systems out of their attacks. No.

Dave Bittner 1:06:56
Well, in some of them have claimed to they may they would they would crow about this and say that they were going to leave them alone much the way that you know, during times of war, you don't bomb hospitals, and so on and so forth. And then they just go ahead and do it. And I think a big part of it is just because of the automation that they use. They're just out there. Well, I guess it's there are two kinds of ransomware operators. There are the big game hunters who do their homework, and they go after organizations, specifically. And then there are the spray and pray operators, and they just look for vulnerable systems. And off they go. And so I think that's in part how a lot of the healthcare systems have been hit that it's not that they're being targeted specifically. They're just sort of, I don't know, drive the drive by shootings of ransomware happen. But it's just, it's not sustainable. Something has to change here. The ransomware is just it continues to grow. It's getting worse. It's it's costing lives. We have question, we had the pipeline issue, which I think is going to be the thing that draws international attention to this. And it's just we've got to figure out a way to clamp down on this because it's not know what it really handle

Brian Schulmeister 1:08:10
regulating cryptocurrency.

Jason DeFillippo 1:08:15
I don't know if the regulating it's

Brian Schulmeister 1:08:17
how they're getting paid, right.

Jason DeFillippo 1:08:18
But you'd have to eliminate it and you can't eliminate it. It's It's It's that it's not something that you can just regulate your way out of because it is out in the wild. This thing exists. You know, it's I wait to get rid of it. It's the whole distributed network. Part of it is the reason that it exists. You can't just turn it off by saying Senator schmucky mix schmuck says it's bad to use the crypto kids don't do it. No, it's it exists now. And it is a way that people can get paid and they're going to exploit it to the ends of the earth, you know?

Dave Bittner 1:08:54
Yeah, what I see people saying is that they could apply the I believe that called know your customer rules that financial institutions have to apply which which is to help them from doing business with mobsters, you know, those types of things to help with with money laundering, those sorts of things. So there are regulations in place for regular banking, that some people are making the argument if we applied that to cryptocurrency that would go a long way towards solving a lot of these problems. Would it fix everything? No, but it would help a lot. Yeah,

Jason DeFillippo 1:09:31
if there was like, I don't know, maybe a company behind Bitcoin that could actually you know, do something about it, and maybe change the code to do things about it, maybe, but there's not that's why I you know, stand by, there's actual people and a company and funding behind chia because that's a cryptocurrency that is going to be able to be able to track people down and lock things off and do things like you know, cut the bad guys off at the knee if they have to. That's why Bitcoin is just so damn, that's it. One of the many gaggle of reasons why Bitcoin is so damn bad.

Dave Bittner 1:10:04
I saw a funny thing this week. And I'm wondering if this resonates with the two of you, somebody made the statement that Bitcoin is an way for libertarians.

Brian Schulmeister 1:10:16
It's very clever.

Dave Bittner 1:10:19
Not bad, not bad, not bad. Not bad, not bad. I just got a quick story here. In the, you know, ongoing thing of data breaches. There's an app called daily quiz, popular app where you can make little quizzes and compete with your friends, and so on and so forth. personal details of 13 million of their users were leaked online. Then, yeah, plaintext, passwords, emails, IP addresses, and so forth. And the data has been put for sale on the dark web. It's in the Have I been poned database. So probably worth checking. You know, what somebody should? I suppose this already happens, but it's like, can you get a monthly email from Have I been poned? That just automatically checks and says, Hey, here's your update.

Jason DeFillippo 1:11:10
Yeah, you sign it, you sign up for alerts, I get alerts when they happen. You can just sign up. Yeah, put your email address in and I think you can do your phone number as well. Okay, and it'll send you alerts when you're part of a breach. I sadly have gotten them in the past. So

Dave Bittner 1:11:24
yeah, I should I shouldn't I should know that. I'm glad you do. Yeah. Okay, good.

Jason DeFillippo 1:11:29
Somebody has got to be a professional.

Dave Bittner 1:11:31
It's right. It's certainly not me so

Brian Schulmeister 1:11:34
well, we also have another breach Air India just suffered one of the larger though not largest airline data breaches, 4.5 million passengers, their information has gotten out as well. So they couldn't get passwords, but they had access to names, contact info tickets, frequent flyer info, etc, including Star Alliance, which I had a membership with, so I better go check. Have I been poned? Hmm. So good times. Yep. Yeah. So it's it's everywhere. And I like this, the repercussions could be felt worldwide for a while to come. Yes. Except for Air India, because we know there are never any repercussions for this.

Jason DeFillippo 1:12:10
Right. Right, right. Indeed. Well, let's end with a fun story. Here. Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealers downfall. A drug dealer was tracked down after sharing a photo of Stilton cheese. That's right. He posted a picture of himself holding a brick of cheese on the nkro chat, which had been cracked by the cops and they did some fingerprint and palm print recognition on the photo and said, hey, that's our man. Let's go get them. And yes,

Dave Bittner 1:12:42
show His hands were in the photos.

Jason DeFillippo 1:12:44
Yes, yes. If you if you look at the the photo on the BBC, you can see the photo. They blurred it though, so you can't really see the high definition.

Dave Bittner 1:12:52
So we're gonna do our own searching down and like, the fingerprints Exactly.

Jason DeFillippo 1:12:58
Like we don't already know who it is. It's like, okay, cows have left the barn on that one, buddy. Yes, but yeah, he's going away for 13 years and six months. So for selling a heroin, cocaine, ketamine and MDMA

Dave Bittner 1:13:13
brought down

Brian Schulmeister 1:13:15
the joys. I hope you got to enjoy the cheese before they picked them up. Because now some nice cheese right there. Who's gonna be eating some government cheese now?

Jason DeFillippo 1:13:25
Fun times. Well, gentlemen, that was fun. Yeah, okay, in a sad panopticon sort of way.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:33

Jason DeFillippo 1:13:37
outs over at Patreon we've got no buddy. Over at PayPal, we've got john, Andrew, Tom, Jeff, john, Andre, Joseph, Mark, Adam and Paolo. So thank you all very much for your support of the show and keeping us on the air.

Brian Schulmeister 1:13:53
Thank you. And over at iTunes. Somebody managed to get into that broken system and give us a review. Gee Blanca from the UK says fun and informative. I love the show. It feels like I'm in a rough pub discussing tech and politics with my best friends. My wife told me the show is titled as a perfect description of me. Not sure what she means by that. Sorry to your wife.

Jason DeFillippo 1:14:13
And so I'm still doing the live stream if anybody wants to come learn about this time

Brian Schulmeister 1:14:19
with added cheer.

Jason DeFillippo 1:14:20
Yes, was added chia, learn about podcasting and audio. I'm gonna be doing some microphone demos this time. And I'm still trying to figure out what else to do. Because it's two hours, man. That's a lot of time to fill. But yeah,

Brian Schulmeister 1:14:32
come on. Once you can do you can you can list off every place you can find our show. Now, that should take about two hours. Since just this week, we're now on YouTube and audible.

Jason DeFillippo 1:14:43
Yeah, yeah, that's right. We hit audible this week. That was weird. That was really weird. I guess you signed us up for Amazon. So they just said amazon music. Yeah, we're just gonna put you on Audible instead.

Brian Schulmeister 1:14:56
Oh, that's right. That's how we got there. Got it. Okay, I was I totally free Got that I'd signed us up for Amazon.

Jason DeFillippo 1:15:01
Yeah, cuz I'm like, we're gonna get kicked out because you're not allowed to disparage AWS or Amazon if you have on your podcast and I'm like, dry and we do a lot of that. We do a lot of that. Until next time. I'm Jason DeFillippo.

Brian Schulmeister 1:15:14
And I'm Brian Schulmeister. Thanks for listening to grumpy old geeks. If you enjoy the show, please consider Gog dot show slash donate to help us keep the lights on and will love you forever. You can also help us out by sharing the show with your friends and enemies. It's easy and absolutely free. Show Notes for this episode are a Gog dot show slash 508. From there you can find links to everything we talked about in this episode as well as links to our swag and discord channel. And if you want to buy some stuff or chat with us and other show fans, you can go there to discord because we hang out. You can also head over to Gog dot show slash contact and send us your feedback or questions that we can read on the air. And if you're so inclined, please head over to Gog dot show slash review and toss us a snarky review and preferably five stars stay grumpy

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